[lojban] Re: consolation

[Martin Bays <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jorge Llambías wrote:

>
> --- Martin Bays <mbays@freeshell.org> wrote:
> > So what brivla unambiguously corresponds to mo'u, in the way sisti does to
> > co'u?
>
> Let's see.
>
> {mulno} is not problematic when the x1 involves a change of state.
> {le nu klama cu mulno} says that the going is complete, i.e. that
> the goer has reached the destination. Similarly {le nu binxo
> cu mulno} and {le nu zbasu cu mulno} are clear.
>
> The problem appears when x1 is a state. Does {le nu mi gleki
> cu mulno} mean that my happiness is complete, or that I'm no
> longer happy? States don't have a temporal completion point,
> so a state is complete when it is in some sense saturated,
> if I could not be happier then my happiness is complete.
> That is what I take {mulno} to mean when x1 is a state.
>
> Now, as to {co'u} and {mo'u}.
>
> {sisti} does not quite correspond to {co'u}, because it has
> an x1. The correspondence would be co'a-cfari, co'u-tolcfa
>
>   mi co'a gleki  -- le nu mi gleki cu cfari
>   mi co'u gleki  -- le nu mi gleki cu tolcfa
>
> {mulno} does not describe a change, so it corresponds to {ba'o}
> rather than to {mo'u}, for events that involve changes:
>
>   mi ba'o klama le zarci  -- le nu mi klama le zarci cu mulno
>
> {mo'u} corresponds (for change events) to {mulbi'o}:
>
>   mi mo'u klama le zarci  -- le nu mi klama le zarci cu mulbi'o
>
> States don't have a natural ending point, so {mi mo'u gleki}
> is not that meaningful. I wouldn't mind interpreting it as
> "I achieve complete happiness", though.
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>

OK, that's clear, and it looks like I'd managed to misread the
definitions of both mulno *and* sisti.

So can that be summarised as -
 - whenever {le nu broda} is of an event type which has a mo'u (i.e a
	process), {le nu broda cu mulno} <==> {pu mo'u broda} ==> {ba'o
	broda}
 - for states (and activities?), {le nu broda cu mulno} means something
	along the lines of broda being as true as possible during the
	state/activity.
 - for point-events...? Both interpretations make sense.
 - for objects, mulno's other, three-place structure applies.

mu'o