[lojban] Re: consolation

[Martin Bays <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

cu'u la xod.
>
> la maten cusku di'e
>
> > So can that be summarised as -
> >  - whenever {le nu broda} is of an event type which has a mo'u (i.e a
> > 	process), {le nu broda cu mulno} <==> {pu mo'u broda} ==> {ba'o
> > 	broda}
>
> Perhaps {lo nu broda cu mulno} <==> {ba'o mo'u broda}, since the
> LHS is tenseless so the RHS should be tenseless too.
>

Hmmm... I see your point, but I'm not sure using multiple ZAhO in a single
tense gives a meaningful tense, at least in CLL Lojban. I would interpret
that as, if anything, "At some glorked point in time, something both is
having broda-ed and is at the point of completion of broda-ing" - which
makes no sense.

> >  - for states (and activities?), {le nu broda cu mulno} means something
> > 	along the lines of broda being as true as possible during the
> > 	state/activity.
>
> Yes, I suppose that it has to work for activities too:
>
>    le nu mi bajra cu mulxadba ze'a le pamoi mentu gi'eku'i
>    mulno ze'a le drata temci
>    My running was half-hearted for the first minutes, but
>    to the full for the rest of the time.
>

'K. Though again, your non-CLL use of tense seems strange to me, however
useful.

> >  - for point-events...? Both interpretations make sense.
>
> Do you have an example?

No. But only because I don't really understand point events, except as
another way of looking at states/activities/processes - which is why I
said both the state and process version make sense.

>
> >  - for objects, mulno's other, three-place structure applies.
>
> I suppose we could say that for events the full place structure
> applies too, with x2 being {le ka ce'u fasnu}:
>
>    le nu mi klama le zarci cu mulno le ka fasnu}
>    My going to the market is complete in its occurring.
>
>    le nu mi gleki cu mulno le ka fasnu
>    My being happy is complete in its occurring.
>

Sounds reasonable. Alternatively you could take the event definition to be
primitive, and define the object one in terms of it:

{ke'a mulno le ka [ce'u] broda} :<==> {le nu ke'a broda cu mulno}

But then we have the problem of whether {le nu ke'a broda} is a state or
a process - {mi ca mulno le ka jmive} could be either "I have completed
the process of living [and am dead]" or "I am completely alive".

And if not that, then how in general to interpret the x2 of mulno?

mu'o mi'e maten.