Re: Projects

["reverendzow" <reverendzow@yahoo.com>]

--- In lojban@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton <lojban-out@l...> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:27:16 -0000, reverendzow <reverendzow@y...> 
wrote:
> > Lastly, a set of ideograms for gismu.
> 
> There've been a couple of attempts at this before; one of mine 
(based
> on Japanese) is at http://shavian.org/lojban/gismu-jap.html , for
> example. (At least one other is based on Chinese, IIRC). Not as
> official projects, though; more as fun, as I understand it.

Interesting.  I'll check this out.

> > This requires the potential to
> > make a simple visual system for making lujvo, else the phonetic
> > alphabet could be used for gismu and lujvo as well.
> 
> It would certainly need to allow people to differentiate between 
lujvo
> and tanru; "glibau" is not the same as "glico bangu". (It *is* the
> same as "gicybau" or "glicybangu", though, by definition, so one
> notation could conceivably represent either.)

So if glibau = gicybau = glicybangu, and these are the only ways to 
combine glico bangu into a lujvo, then I would use some sort of 
physical connector between the two glyphs.  The corresponding tanru 
would merely be the glyphs adjacent, sans connector or cmavo.

> > For instance, what shall we call words that possess brivla?
> 
> What do you mean with that? How can a word possess a brivla? There 
are
> words, some of which are Lojban words, some of which are brivla.

Right.  I meant rafsi, and obviously had been awake too long.

> > I have come up with ka'eserafsi, although my construction may
> > be flawed,
> 
> That falls apart into the three words "ka'e se rafsi". "da ka'e se
> rafsi" seems to me to mean something like "X can be a word which has
> rafsi". But only gismu and some cmavo have rafsi; brivla in general 
do
> not. (The lujvo composed of "ka'e se rafsi" would 
be "ka'erselrafsi",
> FWIW.)

My intent of a literal translation was "X has the ability to be the 
meaning of a rafsi".  And (I think) I would prefer lo over da in this 
instance.  So "lo ka'erselrafsi", perhaps?

> > Similarly, it seems the selma'o are named
> > after the most commonly used elemental cmavo, rather than a Lojban
> > meaning of their function.
> 
> *nods* Those are conventional English names, though.
> 
> I do not believe there are any official Lojban names for cmavo;
> indeed, I seem to recall some saying that they hope that the Lojban
> name for e.g. selma'o GOhA does not contain the word "go'a".

Hear, hear.  I'm guessing naming the selma'o is then of a low-ish 
priority.  The main reason I would like to have it is for the purpose 
of building a Java class heierarchy with solely Lojban names for the 
components.

> > The point is:  it is quite likely that the vocabulary needs
> > serious optimization/reform if widespread adoption of
> > Lojban is to occur.
> 
> The point is: many people have put a lot of effort into learning
> Lojban in its current form. Reforming or optimising would render 
that
> effort largely useless.
> 
> Aka: it's not gonna happen. If you want to create son-of-Lojban, by
> all means feel free, but don't tinker with Lojban itself (unless 
you'd
> like to join the BPFK and attempt to formalise what exactly certain
> constructs mean).

What's a BPFK?  I think such a change -could- happen, but to do so, 
the following would have to occur:  Someone creates a new Lojban 
vocabulary that has major improvements over the current one (although 
this is not necessarily possible), then the existing (and relatively 
small as I understand it) Lojban community would need to be convinced 
that this new vocabulary was worth the work in switching.  $0.02

> Good luck.

Thank you.

> mu'o mi'e .filip.
> -- 
> Philip Newton <philip.newton@g...>