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[lojban] Re: na scope. Again.



Jorge Llambías wrote:
--- robin wrote:

Jorge Llambías wrote:

What it would change is simple negations like {mi e do na klama le zarci}. Instead of meaning that
either I don't go, or you don't go, or both, it would
mean that neither I nor you go.

I would find that rather weird (lojbanically - it makes sense if you want to make Lojban closer to English),


That's certainly not the goal. I don't mind Lojban differing from
English whenever it makes sense, but the global scope of {na} makes no sense even from a strictly lojbanic point of view. It just doesn't fit well with everything else with scope, and it creates some problems that need more ad-hoc rules to solve them.

and also think it would defeat the point of using "na" rather than "na'e".


{na'e} modifies a brivla, it is quite different from {na}, which
negates a bridi. I am in no way proposing to conflate them.


If "na" doesn't mean "it is not the case that [brivla]", what does it mean that isn't covered by a different negative?


{na} means "it is not the case that [bridi]". That doesn't change.


Sorry, I meant "bridi". But it seems that if {mi e do na klama le zarci} means that neither I nor you go to the store, then what we are doing is modifying the brivla, i.e. we're saying "I and you do something other than go to the store" which is pretty much the same as saying {mi e do na'e klama le zarci}, isn't it?

Forgive me if I'm being dense here; I've always found negation hard to get my head round.

robin.tr


--
"His youngest brother, Tendzin Choegyal, says one of the Dalai Lama's greatest finds of recent years was super-glue -- second, in fact, only to the more recent discovery of super-glue remover."

Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Universitesi
Ankara 06533
Turkey

www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin