[lojban] Re: Semantic Primes

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

Sorry;  I saw "semantic web" and went off on the
historic thing (n-dimensional concept network)
rather than checking to see what it meant here
and now (I should have known better, tech terms
being what they are: if I squint real hard I can
sorta see how "ontology" might come to be
"representation of terms and their
interrelationships," but I haven't gotten around
"lemma" yet).

In any case, I see some real advantages to Lojban
from your project.  Since Lojban gismu are meant
to be monosemous, you will pin them down to a
single item in the Wordnet set and thus
explicitly get rid of the rivals: {djuno} for
example is ^know^3, especially not 1 or 2.  It
is, alas, not quite 3 even, since 3 allows "know"
to be used when we only have supreme confiidence
that something is the case even when it turns out
not to be, {berti} in short. Thus, Lojban may
have some useful reflections back onto Wordnet,
by proposing other divisions of the same space (I
can see someone arguing that {djuno}, while it
excludes 1 and 2 of ^know^ might include some
other cases (perhaps 9, for example)while still
being offically monosemous within Lojban.

Go for it!

--- Brian Eubanks <jorne@eubot.com> wrote:

> 
> coi rodo
> 
> I think what Brandon is trying to do, and me
> too, with the Jorne Project 
> (http://jorne.org  -- which I hope he will
> join), is to be able to 
> convert Semantic Web constructs to and from
> Lojban. I agree that the 
> Lojban gismu are not exactly semantic primes.
> 
> Some ontologies for semantic primes can be
> found in:
> English Wordnet  at  
> http://wordnet.princeton.edu/
> SUMO/MILO  at   http://suo.ieee.org/
> OpenCyc  at  http://opencyc.org/
> and others
> 
> But because gismu can be combined logically
> (and the language is 
> syntactically non-ambiguous) it is an
> appropriate prose language for 
> creating and describing semantic content. We
> would need to build 
> standard semantic hierarchies in order to do
> that.
> For example they can be Lojban<->Lojban,
> Lojban<->Wordnet or Lojban<->SUMO.
> 
> I think it would be very powerful to have the
> gismu formally related to 
> concepts from each of the above (in a
> hierarchy/ontology such as OWL). 
> This forms a natural dictionary (think
> "semantic gloss") that is 
> accessible to machine reasoning and can also
> form the basis for 
> automated discovery of Lojban glosses in other
> languages. I started 
> looking at some of the gismu and trying to map
> them to SUMO concepts but 
> have not had much time to spend on it lately.
> English has a Wordnet 
> database, why shouldn't Lojban? ;-) And we can
> do it even better because 
> of the logical aspects of Lojban.
> 
> Imagine the following scenario:
> -------
> Last year, in 2015, the Semantic Web arrived in
> a big way. Half of the 
> world's web sites have converted their pages
> into webs of concepts 
> instead of text documents linked by "keywords"
> (which are what HTML 
> hyperlinks are). Software conversion agents are
> becoming autonomous, and 
> can now automatically discover and reason about
> knowledge gathered from 
> sites on the web. This can happen because the
> semantics of the content 
> is encoded in RDF tags. But a lot of the
> ancient 2005-era legacy data in 
> natural language format still needs to be
> properly converted. It's a 
> massive undertaking. Lojban is playing an
> important part in this.
> 
> By 2012, all the major natural languages had a
> wordnet and grammarnet. 
> But Lojban had the most machine-compatible of
> any of these, because it 
> didn't rely on a neural network or fuzzy logic
> to process the grammar. 
> So the World Semantic Council voted to make
> Lojban as the official 
> intermediate prose description language for
> semantic webs.
> 
> Once any natural language document is converted
> into a semantic (RDF) 
> description, software agents need to check the
> correctness of the 
> mapping. These quality testing agents convert
> the RDF structures into 
> Lojban. Lojban here is working like a hybrid of
> natural language and 
> data structure. The agents compare the Lojban
> against the original text 
> and its English, Chinese, and Hindi
> translations from RDF. Currently, a 
> human also checks the generated text for
> semantic correctness (according 
> to the StandardHuman2011 semantic standard).
> This is taking too much 
> time and money. There are rumors that the human
> QA checks will be 
> reduced by 50% next year.
> 
> Note: This document is a translation to English
> from Quechua and German 
> versions (via RDF and Lojban) and its semantic
> consistency has not yet 
> been verified.
> -------
> 
> This stuff will become real, and it's already
> happening in some ways. 
> Witness the amazing growth of RSS site feeds
> lately. And XML is used 
> everywhere. Take a look at the W3C's vision for
> the semantic web and its 
> clear that Lojban would fit into the picture
> very well.  
> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/
> 
> la iuban
> blog at  http://brian.mxdj.com
> 
> John E Clifford wrote:
> 
> >This sounds like an interesting project and I
> am
> >glad you think that Lojban may help.  But you
> >should note early on that Lojban gismu are not
> >meant to be semantic primes but rather higher
> >nodes in a web that will be more useful for
> >forming compounds (primes make for very long
> >compounds -- check out AUI). Notice, by way of
> >making the point, the current discussion about
> >{pilka} and {skapi}, which probably share some
> >primes and yet are clearly different and are
> both
> >gismu.  Taking gismu as fixed points, your web
> >will have to go down as well as up to fit
> other
> >concepts in, if that is the overall scheme you
> >are following (I don't keep up, so my ideas
> are
> >very 1970's -- roughly old stone age, I
> suspect).
> >
> >-
> >
> 
> 
> 
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