[lojban] Re: where to lookup cmavo?

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

--- xah lee <xah@xahlee.org> wrote:
> 
> what does ¡°noi¡± or ¡°va¡± mean?
> 
> very frequently i need to lookup such grammar
> words that is the essence 
> of lojban, but finding no resource or ways.
> 
> The few times over the years i tried the so
> called lojban dictionary:
> http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/
> and i don't remember once it was helpful.
> 
> Where or how can a learner of lojban, when
> encountering such a new 
> grammar words (cmavo), find out its meaning or
> usage?
> 
> (the few times i tried the cmavo list. Often
> fruitless there too. For 
> some reason most of these words are just not
> there.)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
>   Xah
>   xah@xahlee.org
>   http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html
> 
I haven't checked out jbovlaste  in a while
because I have a wordlist -- somewhat out of date
apparently but fairly complete -- that I
downloaded years ago.  I can't imagine that the
on-line version is less complete.  What seems to
be likely however is that the listings there
don't tell much about usage; for that you need to
check CLL (also on-line somewhere on the
lojban.org site).  So, for example, taht text
will tell you that {leta cifnu}means "the infant
related somehow to that one,"  not probably what
you want.  The alternatives offered are {le va
cifnu} "the thing being an infant there (a ways
away)" or {ta noi cifnu}, "that thing which
incidentally is an infant." {ta poi cifnu} would
also work: "that thing that is an infant"  In
each case, the working of the idiom is in CLL. 
What isn't there is the guide to choosing the
right idiom for what you want and, aside from the
lojban-list or the How to Say It section of wiki,
there is nothing to do that, alas.
> On Mar 13, 2005, at 7:38 AM, Philip Newton
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:40:24 -0800, xah lee
> <xah@xahlee.org> wrote:
> >
> > le ta cifnu cu sipna = that baby is sleeping
> = ÄÇÓ¤?ºÔÚî¡
> 
> {le ta cifnu} is "the baby associated with
> that" (same as {le cifnu pe 
> ta}).
> 
> I think you want either {ta noi cifnu} or {le
> va cifnu}.
> 
> > how to say "the babe is suckling from her
> mom?"
> > (ÄÇÓ¤¶ùÔÚ³ÔËûÂèµÄÄÌ)
> 
> I'd try {le cifnu cu pinxe lo ladru lo tatru be
> lo mamta be cy.}. Or
> maybe with {lo ladru be lo tatru...} instead of
> {lo ladru lo
> tatru...}; I'm not sure which is better. (One
> puts "its mothers
> breast" into the x2 of {ladru} -- the origin of
> the milk --, the other
> into the x3 of {pinxe} -- the source of the
> drinking.)

These all work but are wordy.  I suspect that
"suckle" is worthy of a lujvo "suck milk from a
teat" -- or maybe, to deal with bottles and rags
in the same pattern, just "suck milk from" or
even just {sakpinxe} "imbibe by sucking" stuff x2
from source x3 to get (milk being understood I
should think) {le cifnu cu sakpinxe fi le tatru
be lecy mamta}, or so