[lojban] Re: the meter is a unit of length

[Jorge Llambías <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On 8/5/05, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > I'd say {mapti} for that type of scale.
> 
> How exactly  will that work? For "x has value y
> on scale z"  we have {x mapti y z} or maybe
> something more complex at the z place?

Maybe. Or maybe {ckini} could be used instead
of {mapti}.


> > For example, CLL contrasts it with {ka}:
> >
> > <<
> > 5.4)  le pixra cu cenba le ka ce'u blanu [kei]
> >     the picture varies in-the property-of (X is
> > blue)
> >     The picture varies in being blue.
> >     The picture varies in blueness.
> >
> > is not the same as
> > 5.5)  le pixra cu cenba le ni ce'u blanu [kei]
> >     the picture varies in-the amount-of (X is
> > blue)
> >     The picture varies in how blue it is.
> >     The picture varies in blueness.
> >
> > Example 5.4 conveys that the blueness comes and
> > goes, whereas Example
> > 5.5 conveys that its quantity changes over
> > time.
> > >>
> OK (?) So 5.4 is true just in case the picture is
> sometimes blue (does that mean is seen as blue
> rather than say green -- as a whole -- or
> contains some blue pigment) 

That would depend on what counts as {lo pixra cu blanu}
in the context.

> and sometimes not.
> In 5.5, this amounts to the value being somwtimes
> positive (or perhaps greater than some specified
> value), sometimes 0 (or less than the specified
> value).  So {ni} is clearly different from {ka}
> but this {ni} is not clearly different from the
> earlier one: value on some scale.

I see a clear difference between the value (for 
example {li pinoci}) and the property of having 
some value (for example {lo ka ce'u blanu se 
la'u li pinoci). 

> Well, I still haven't plumbed the depths of {se
> la'u}, but it looks to me that what you are
> talking about is just the difference between and
> all or none notion (ka}, and a finer grained one
> {ni} (and, of course, {jei] can derive from
> either (more or less directly)). 

That would be the difference CLL claims exists between
the two examples, yes.

The difference between the two senses of {ni} 
(the one I most often see in definitions vs. the one
I most often see in use) is the difference between 
a number or a value on a scale, and a property or
having a value on a scale.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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