[lojban] Re: Wheels in my Head

[Jorge Llambías <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On 9/15/05, Brandon Wirick <brandon@yrick.com> wrote:
> > If you stress the first A you get two words: bangrspe ranto.
> 
> Okay, so what's it supposed to be, {bangrsperAnto}? 

Yep. Only one stress per brivla.

> {retsku} is not so easy, because the {tsk} cluster needs to be broken
> up somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it permissible to
> assume a very short {ybu} between {ty} and {sy} in this case? 

Well, yes and no. You can insert a non-lojban vowel between any pair
of consonants, but not in general "y". In my proposed morphology you
can use "y" after any CVC rafsi, so in this example {retysku} and {retsku}
is the same word. But you couldn't insert a "y" in the middle of a fu'ivla.

> Thoughts on this? Would this facilitate or hinder understanding of
> Lojban syllables? Also, wouldn't this be a great format for synthetic
> Lojban speech programs? What other words seem troublesome?

The breaks don't always look like syllables to me.

With my morphology, the total number of syllables is 47602 (if my count 
is correct, counting stressed and unstressed as distinct) so 65536 is
more than enough, but they don't pattern the way you have them. There
are 64 consonantal syllables (a consonant followed by l, m, n or r) and
the rest are syllabic ones. 

The syllabic ones can be divided in three parts: an onset, a nucleus 
and a coda. The nuclei and the codas are the simplest:

19 possible nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, á, é, í, ó, ú, ái,
áu, éi, ói, y.
(Notice that "y" is never stressed, and the nucleus can't be empty.)

18 possible codas: -, b, c, d, f, g, j, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, v, x, z 
(The 17 consonants and nothing.)

There are 121 possible onsets, which can be divided in four classes:

36 semi-consonantal: i, bi, ci, di, fi, gi, ji, ki, li, mi, ni, pi,
ri, si, ti, vi, xi, zi
u, bu, cu, du, fu, gu, ju, ku, lu, mu, nu, pu, ru, su, tu, vu, xu zu

1 (the apostrophe): '

4 affricates: tc, ts, dj, dz

The 98 listed here:
<http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Morphology%3A%20consonants>
(This list includes the 4 affricates, but they really don't fit the
same pattern. The glottal stop is included.)

So in all we have:

 (98 + 4 + 1 + 36) * 19 * 18 + 64 = 47602

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.