[lojban] Re: A Proposed Explanation of {gunma}

[Jorge Llambías <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

On 12/16/05, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Type face problem: it was "ui" not "ul." Has a
> distribution like member of the selma'o that
> includes {ui}.

Ah, that explains it!

> > "Hence" is inappropriate there, since {loi
> > broda} would not
> > be the typical sumti to put in the x1 of gunma.
>
> Now that is interesting.  I would have thought
> that {loi broda} was an archetypal mass.  If not
> it, what?

loi broda are, eventually, the constituents of a mass.

Examples of "masses" (as in gunma1) would be, besides the obvious
lo gunma: lo girzu, lo se cmima, lo bende, lo kanmi, lo lanzu, lo derxi,
lo mixre, lo salta, etc. These are all things which in turn have other things
as constituents.


> Someday I need to find out what is the meaning in
> Lojban speak of "orthogonal;"  I don't get "at
> right angle to" even as a metaphor (or rather it
> makes sense as at least two conflicting metaphors
> and I don't see enough usage to figure which is
> intended).

It's not a common English idiom? It simply means
that two properties are independent of each other, each on
its own axis. In this case, the distributive/non-distributive
distinction is independent of the generic/specific distinction,
you can have all combinations.

> From this I get either that you don't think that
> {lo broda} and {loi broda} are the same thing(s)
> in different predication relations

I do think that they are the same thingS, possibly
in the same predication relation even, but with
{loi broda} blocking the distributive interpretation
and {lo broda} not blocking it. The plural is significant
because if they were to refer to one thing the distinction
between them vanishes.

>or that you
> don't think that masses are just are things in
> collective predication, leaving it open what they
> are exactly.

As I said, I rather not bring the word "mass" or any other
noun into it, because I don't want to say that {loi broda}
refers to one thing, which any noun immediately invites.
So, I don't think that loi broda is a mass, I think that
loi broda can be the constituents of a mass.

> Or both, of course.  In either
> case, I don't see what that has to do with
> genericity, which I tend to read as your take on
> at least {lo broda}.

It has nothing to do with it. I thought you were bringing
it up by suggesting that avatars/exemplars would be
the constituents of an Urgoo, but I probably misunderstood.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.