[lojban] Re: semantic primes

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/21/06, John E Clifford
> <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Thanks for the list.  Mine came out a bit
> > different, largely because of different
> readings
> > (apparently) of either the NSM list or of the
> > Lojban.
> 
> Any interesting difference worth mentioning?

Not really.
 
> > The NSM list, since the words are
> > primes, does not get a lot of explanation,
> > although the issue of Theoretical Linguistics
> on
> > NSM (v. 29, #3) does clarify a few by giving
> > unambiguous (well, much less ambiguous)
> frames
> > taken as decisive.
> 
> I later found a couple of articles with some
> examples, so some
> of them were a bit more clear. For example
> "SOMETHING"
> does not have to be an object, it can also be
> an action, as in
> "I do something", but presumably it cannot be a
> person, so
> there is no direct equivalent in Lojban {lo
> dacti} covers too little
> and {da} covers too much.

But it is definitely an existential quantifier,
not a noun phrase -- and not quantitative ({su'o}
-- a distinction hard to make in Lojban or
English).
 
> > The Lojban-Lojban section of
> > jbovlaste is a step in the right direction,
> > lacking mainly a definitive list of primes
> and of
> > normative contexts for definitions.  And, of
> > course, covering more words.
> 
> Yes. I don't really believe in definitive lists
> of primes, but I do
> believe that defining things in terms of
> simpler concepts is
> worthwhile.

Well, there is the logical argument for there
being a single distinctive list of primes.  But
on a prectical level, it is sufficient to have a
set of basics at any given point of analysis,
with the possibility that at another point, some
of those primes are open to analysis.  so long as
the two levels never meet there is no problem; if
they do, we get the usual situation of circular
definitions.  I think that ultimately a universal
set of primes is called for, whether the NSM set
or another (and it is unclear that the NSM set is
adequate, despite the best efforts of its supporters).


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