[lojban] Re: semantic primes can define anything

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/25/06, John E Clifford
> <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Yeah, "emotion" was a bad choice of word,
> > probably generated because so many of the
> > definitions in which FEEL appears are about
> > emotions.  Your characterization is better. 
> But
> > the essential thing is to note that it does
> not
> > cover "feel that" constructions.
> 
> The essential thing in this context was that
> the
> prime FEEL does not have a Lojban equivalent,
> that
> Lojban splits this prime in two: {cinmo} and
> {ganse}.

Well, neither of them fits very well: {cinmo} is
explicitly about emotions, with the rpoblems
noted; {ganse} wants a stimulus.  How does one
say "I feel (something) bad"?
> Other primes that Lojban seems to split are for
> example THINK into {pensi} and {jinvi},
 this seems to be clearly {jinvi} "think
something about something," there is some
discussion of a need to divide it into "think
something" and "think about."  Incidentally, why
does Lojban have two words here?

 HAPPEN
> into {fasnu} and {se lifri}

Mainly {se lifri} the line seems laways to be
"Something happens to something."

 and probably KNOW
> into
> {djuno} and {se slabu}.

I can't find a {se slabu} case, but I have a list
of only a couple dozen cases.

 Not to mention the very
> problematic HAVE.

It seems to be the minimal "alienable use" sense
(which Lojban doesn't do to well), but I can't
find an example of it.
 
> I don't know what the Spanish prime
> corresponding
> to YOU is either. There are four candidates:
> "tú", "usted", "ustedes" and "vosotros", and
> it's hard
> to say that there are no conceptual differences
> among
> them.

I think it has to be "usted," but again, I don't
have a case.
 
> So the primes seem to fit English very well but
> other
> languages not so well.

Well, it fits English well in the sense that
there are English expressions that do (sometimes)
mean what is intended here (but it presumably
fits Spanish in that way two, else some of these
"primes" would clearly not be primes).  The
problem is that all the English expressions are
polysemous and it is hard to pick out the right
one and be sure to use only it.


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.