[lojban] Re: [nues@chello.at: Sapir-Whorf]

[Bob LeChevalier <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

Matt Arnold wrote:
> I presume we are agreed that there is no program of research in place
> to study Saphir/Whorf effects on Lojban-speakers. I would say that the
> effect can't be measured until it becomes a living language, and we
> are now only on the cusp of that.
> -Matt

There were ideas for a research program outlined back in JL6 or JL7 (as 
well as an entire chapter in the 4th edition of JCB's book, which is on 
the loglan.org website, but I found JCB's proposal to be dreadfully flawed).

There is research that could be done on Lojban and the SWH, but it 
wouldn't be the sort of thing that would give any conclusive answer, 
just suggest whether there really are effects.

Some degree of informal research based on my research ideas are 
possible, but would prove nothing because informal research couldn't 
produce a fruitful number of subjects and control the variables 
sufficiently.  It might inspire others.  But I've never had enough 
serious Lojban students in one place for enough time to try to stretch 
my idea into practice.

Any serious research would require grant money, which requires serious 
linguists to be interested, and it would require that LLG and Lojban 
have proved itself to be linguistically interesting in the first place 
(and since linguists are somewhat biased against SWH research because of 
its sloppy "popular" aspect, interest needs to be whetted carefully). 
People like Nick Nicholas and Ivan Derzhanski, who have reference Lojban 
in professional papers, improve this possibility.  We probably have 
sufficiently lived down JCB's politically disastrous attempts to get NSF 
funding in the 1970s, but I would not have anyone attempt to make 
another proposal unless they were credentialed in the field and had some 
experience writing proposals for the intended audience.

In other countries, where the politics and funding of linguistics 
research may be considerably different than in the US, something may be 
possible.

I also think a research program focused on the psychological aspects of 
SWH in terms I described in that old JL issue of "creativity" or 
"emotional expressiveness" (two areas where I think true SWH could be 
detected if Lojban use has such effects), could lead to funded research 
in that field that could lead through the back door back to 
linguistically acceptable SWH research (i.e. my impression is that 
psychological research is more willing to explore new ideas than 
linguists are).  But serious psychological research would still take 
grant money and an interested credentialed person to lead the grant and 
ensure that any research plan is up to the standards of the field.  And 
unlike linguists, we don't have any psychology researchers in the 
community to my knowledge.

Recalling where you are located, Matt, several years ago I intrigued 
Alexis Manaster-Ramer, a noted UofM linguistics professor in some 
research applications for Lojban - not SWH.  No idea if he still 
remembers us - I'm sure I have the correspondence somewhere on my 
computer (I helped him on his Nostratic proto-language research).  He'd 
be one of the people I would start with if I were trying again to stir 
up some interest in research in the linguistics community - but I don't 
even know if he is still at UofM.

lojbab



To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.