[lojban] Re: mi'o pensi'u

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

Amen! The frequent use of sets in Lojban (from
Loglan) is a product of an earlier time in Logic,
when there seemed no other way of dealing with
plurality.  While they were, in fact, already
available, bunches (however realized) came to
general awareness for logicians -- and eventually
Lojbanists -- only relatively recently.  Unlike
sets, bunches are transparent to the properties
-- and individuality -- of their members. 
Barring a few mathematical cases, "set" ought to
be read as "bunch" (or some equivalent notion,
e.g., "plurality") everywhere in Lojban material.
 The discussion around these topics (including
gadri, for example) needs to be revised
accordingly (and, in a few cases, the whole
notion of the meaning of a word so that it
involved 'sets' or plurals essentially needs to
be rewritten).  Given Lojban's penchant for
misusing words, it is probably enough to simply
misuse "set" to mean "bunch," as many of us  have
been doing in effect for some time now.


--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 4/28/06, Yanis Batura <ybatura@mail.ru>
> wrote:
> >
> > simxu means "x1 (set) has members who
> mutually/reciprocally x2"
> 
> Personally, I never use a set for the x1 of
> {simxu}. I take {simxu}
> to mean instead: "x1 (plural)
> mutually/reciprocally do x2".
> 
> Mixing sets with normal stuff is extremely
> cumbersome, and doesn't
> really get you anything, so I don't use sets.
> For example, if you do use
> sets for the x1 of simxu and you wanted to say
> "we will meet each
> other and then go for a beer", you would have
> to split it into two
> separate bridi because sets wouldn't go for a
> beer.
> 
> > My question is, can {mi'o} be used in a place
> of set?
> 
> I don't think so. But then, I don't think any
> place should be
> reserved for (logical) sets.
> 
> > What is it indentical to, {mi .e do}, {mi joi
> do} or {mi ce do}?
> 
> I would say {mi jo'u do}, which is non-commital
> for distributivity.
> It can be used both distributively and
> non-distributively. When
> context doesn't provide the needed precision,
> one can use the
> more wordy and precise forms.
> 
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
> 
> 
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> 
> 



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