[lojban] Re: ralju bangu be le gligu'e

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

To answer the last (and central) question first:
{bridi} like logic assumes that the structure of
a bridi is (ignoring some irrelevant details)
[selbri]<sumti>, in the instant case [ralju
bangu]<le gligu'e>.  The Lojban grammar has it
ralju [bangu <le gligu'e>], which does not
translate conveniently into the logical form.  It
is, of course, a possible logical form, but a
derivative one (it assumes the first form, note).
 Yet it is the unmarked form here and the basic
form is marked by a complex set of parentheses.
Whether this derivative form matches the meaning
depends upon what the meaning is, and it is not
clearly the one this form eventually matches.

--- Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/4/06, John E Clifford
> <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Grammatically, however (in Lojban,
> > that is -- in Logic the form matches the
> > meaning), it asks for the principal one(s)
> among
> > the languages of the  English land.
> 
> In Lojban the form matches the meaning, at
> least in this case. The relevant
> part of the grammar is:
> 
> selbri <- tanru-unit+
> tanru-unit <- tanru-unit-2 linkargs?
> tanru-unit-2 <- BRIVLA  / KE selbri KEhE / ...
> linkargs <- BE term (BEI term)* BEhO?
> 
> i.e. the linked arguments are absorbed by a
> tanru unit before it can
> modify or be modified by another tanru unit. So
> I don't see any
> mismatches between form and meaning here.
> 
> >  In this
> > case, it is fair to assume that the referent
> is
> > going to be the same, but obviously this will
> not
> > always be the case.
> 
> Both orders are expressable in Lojban:
> 
> lo ralju (bangu be le gligu'e)
> lo (ke ralju bangu ke'e) be le gligu'e
> 
> > And much of the discussion
> > in CLL seems (it is often hard to be sure) to
> say
> > that it is the logical meaning that is
> intended
> > when there is doubt  -- to the dismay of
> anyone
> > trying to write a semantics of the language.
> 
> There can be no doubt in this case though.
> 
> > (Note that the definition of {bridi} is
> already
> > at variance with the grammar here.)
> 
> How so?
> 
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
> 
> 
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> 



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