[lojban] Re: [hobyrne@gmail.com: Alphabet]

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

Nah!  The wikipedia contains a contemporary review which still applies nearly 150 years later. 
The analysis is faulty (though Bell Jr corrected some of it).The so-called representationalism is
largely arbitrary -- better than the Just-So stories but nothing to help a trained articulatory
phonologist. And (not mentioned) the fact that similar sounds are represented by similar
characters merely carries over into writing the common confusions in speech (not a desirable
written-spoken isomorphism).  And it turns out that even more characters are only minutely
different than there are easily confused sounds.  And to no point: Lojban (nor English) doesn't
need a way to represent every conceivable human sound, just a consistent way to represent the ones
in the language (and English doesn't even want that, since, like Chinese, it is probably more
important that all English speakers spell things pretty much the same way than that they spell 
'em like they say 'em -- or we reproduce another kind of spoken mess).  To be sure, the Latin
alphabet could be improved for various purposes  -- make characters more different, for example --
but this is not the way to go.


--- Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

> User is not on the list, so include him in replies, please.
> 
> -robin
> 
> ----- Forwarded message from Hugh O'Byrne <hobyrne@gmail.com> -----
> 
> Subject: Alphabet
> From: Hugh O'Byrne <hobyrne@gmail.com>
> To: lojban@lojban.org
> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:30:31 -0400
> 
> To whom it may concern,
> 
> I adore Lojban.  The biggest weakness it has, IMHO, is its alphabet.
> 
> Recently, I came across "Visible Speech".  The symbols of this alphabet
> indicate the sound they represent by their shape.  For example, 'b',
> 'd', and 'g' (as in bay, day, gay) are represented by the same symbol in
> three different orientations, because the sounds are so similar.  'm' is
> a nasal 'b' sound, so its symbol is similar to 'b', with a small
> modification.  'n' is a nasal 'd', so it's the 'd' symbol with the same
> modification.  'ng' is a nasal 'g', so it's the 'g' symbol with the same
> modification.
> 
> It seems to be perfectly in harmony with the philosophy of Lojban.  It
> is more than phonetic; is a logical, pictorial, categorical ordering of
> sounds.  It should be just about as easy for anyone in the world, no
> matter what their primary language is, to learn.  If you know most of
> the alphabet, and come across a symbol you haven't seen before, there's
> a good chance you could pronounce it anyway - which you cannot say about
> *any* other alphabet that I know of.  It is an extensive alphabet, so
> perhaps just a subset of it is all that's necessary (or even wanted).
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visible_Speech
> http://www.omniglot.com/writing/visiblespeech.htm
> 
> I would love to know what the LLG thinks of Visual Speech.
> 
> Hugh.
> 
> -- 
> Hugh O'Byrne
> 1115 Vassar Ave.
> South Bend IN 46616
> +1 574 234 5527
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> -- 
> http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
> Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
> Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/
> 
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> 



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