[lojban] Re: Stress of the penultimate syllable

[John E Clifford <lojban-out@lojban.org>]

--- "Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin" <andrii.z@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/1/06, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- "Andrii (lOkadin) Zvorygin" <andrii.z@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Is thIs tExt EAsier tO rEAd? I thInk nOt, becAUse yOU cannOt rEAd It At
> > A
> > > > nOrmal pAce bUt hAve to slOw dOwn. (It Also lOOks prEtty Ugly.)
> > > >
> > >
> > > please read previous thread on penultimate syllables. English text does
> > NOT
> > > emphasize the penultimate syllable. It is stress timed. so you have
> > stress
> > > at regular intervals. There don't seem to be any defined rules as to
> > where
> > > you should put emphasis in English, so it makes no sense to capitalize
> > > English.
> >
> > Actually, each word in English has a fixed stress.  There are precious few
> > rules to assign stress
> > (and they are different in different dialects). Marking stress would make
> > sense in English -- as
> > it does not generally in Lojban since it varies -- and is significant (i.e.,
> > there are words which
> > differ only or primarily in stress location, with derivative vowel shift:
> > produce (v) v. produce
> > (n)). The stressed-time feature -- which is more literary than
> > conversational, though we do tend
> > that way when possible -- is just that we tend to hurry over unstressed
> > syllables to get to the
> > stressed ones, so that the time between stressed syllables is about
> > constant.  The favorite sample
> > is the nursery rhyme, Three Blind Mice, which has three-stressed lines of
> > (arguably) between three
> > and eleven syllables.
> >
> >
> > > Try it, write out some text in English in all lower case, normal mixed
> > case,
> > > > accented case, and all upper case. The normal mixed case is what
> > you've
> > > > trained your brain to read best after years of near constant practice.
> > It
> > > > doesn't take kindly to messing that up.
> > > >
> > >
> > > above statement. .e'o try to stay informed, check Wikipedia before you
> > start
> > > capitalizing random vowels in English.
> >
> > I'm not sure what the point of the response is here: the original claim is
> > that we learn to read a
> > certain pattern of letters without reading separate letters and, thus,
> > when we find different
> > patters of letters (especially, say, capitals in the middle of words)we
> > cannot read in the usual
> > way and have to go back to the slower letter-by-letter style.
> > >
> 
> 
> oops quoted wrong line
> 
> 
> Is thIs tExt EAsier tO rEAd? I thInk nOt, becAUse yOU cannOt rEAd It At A
> nOrmal pAce bUt hAve to slOw dOwn. (It Also lOOks prEtty Ugly.)
> 
> that's the line I was refering to with the Wikipedia comment. If you are
> truly fluent in lOjban then you should have no difficulty understanding all
> its forms.
> 
These caps are not exactly random, but pointless since most of the words are one syllable and a
few of them are virtually accentless by nature.
No difficulty is a matter of taste: I take it that the point is that having to shift from Gestalt
reading to letter reading is considered a difficulty in this context.


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