[lojban] Re: and/or

[lojban-out@lojban.org]

Quoting Opi Lauma <opilauma@yahoo.com>:

> I am searching for the words which I have to use to connect    
> arguments of sumti in the following 3 cases:


OK well I need to brush up on connectives, so this is good practice  
for me, but don't take my answers too seriously. :)


> Case I:
> Bears killers came into the city.
> The sentence means that every object which came into the city is   
> bear AND killer simultaneously.


Seems easy enough:

.i lo cribe je catra cu klama lo tcadu

One or more things which both are bears and kill go to the city.


> Case II:
> Bears and killers came into the city.
> The sentence means that every object which came into the city is   
> EITHER bear OR killer.
> Here one  can distinguish two sub-cases.
> II A: the object cannot be bear and killer simultaneously.


.i lo cribe jonai catra cu klama lo tcadu

One or more things which are bears if-and-only-if-they-are-not (XOR)  
killers go to the city.


> II B: the object can be bear and killer simultaneously.


.i lo cribe ja catra cu klama lo tcadu

One or more things which are bears, killers, or both simultaneously go  
to the city.


> Case III:
> Bears or killers came into the city.
> The sentence means that one of the following two sentences is   
> correct (but I do not know which one):
> 1. Bears came into the city.
> 2. Killers came into the city.
> Here one can also distinguish two sub-cases:
> III A: I do not know which of the two above sentences is correct but  
>  I know that only one of them is correct.


.i gonai lo cribe gi lo catra cu klama lo tcadu

Either bears, xor killers, go to the city.


> III B: At least one (may be two) sentences are correct.


.i ga lo cribe gi lo catra cu klama lo tcadu

Either bears or killers or both enter the city.


> P.S.
>  It is interesting to notice that in the case II, in the sentence, I  
>  use "AND" and to explain the meaning  of the sentence I need to use  
>  "OR". And this strange disagreement exists not only in English.  
> Does  it exist in Lojban?


You've hit upon one of Lojban's great strengths, really.  Lojban's  
logical connectives are very powerful and clear.  The problem with  
them is that they're so powerful they may take a while to wrap your  
head around. :)  You can make any truth table to connect any two  
propositions, you just have to learn four standard tables & how to  
negate either one of the propositions.  Then you can learn the various  
cmavo to use those truth tables to connect sumti, tenses & modals,  
brivla within tanru, tails of bridi, and sentences.

Part of why I'm continuing to study Lojban personally is that I have a  
feeling that Lojban's many styles of connection don't really shine  
until you're fluent in them.  Lojban can do things in a single level  
of logical connection which require unusual phrasing and jargon to  
properly accomplish in English, but what's really impressive is that  
the compound units produced can be stacked & related further,  
infinitely.

.i gonai lo cribe .a lo smacu gi lo gerku .eki'ubo lo mlatu cu klama lo tcadu

Either a bear or a mouse, or both, or else a dog as well as and  
because of a cat, go to the city.

.i ganai mi gi gonai lo cribe .a lo smacu gi lo mlatu cu klama lo tcadu

I, only if ((a bear and/or a mouse) XOR a cat), go to the city.

English is getting tired, see, while Lojban is just warming up. :)   
I'd like to see within myself someday how a fluent Lojbanist can put  
these astounding structures to their full use.

mu'o mi'e la bret.



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