Re: 3 Poems by Carl Sandburg

[nsn (Nick Nicholas)]

The Seraphim surely rejoiced when david twery spoke thus:

}coi mi'e la tuerp

coi tuerp. .i coi ro drata ji'a . I'm back from my loooooong absence from
Lojbanistan, and not a moment too soon (but several too late), with all
that's been going on here recently. 

}No, I didn't die ... I was just *restin'* ... 

Yeah... I could say the same, actually. This examination period has been
particularly relaxed for me...

In any case, I have been meaning to get back to David's translations for ages,
and didn't really have the time to until now, for which I apologise.

}These poems ARE loaded with all sorts of grammatical errors. It's, uh, a
}test; yes, I'm *testing* your knowlege of Lojban grammar, right.

Ah yes. :)

}lo ci pemci se finti la karl SAND,byrg

While that's grammatical, I think what you intended was "ci lo pemci poi se
finti la karl. sandbyrg." (Accentuation is obvious). Three of (the set of
poems such that they were written by CS). "lo ci pemci poi..." would mean
(the set of three poems...), which would imply (though not necessitate) that
CS only wrote three poems, since three is the cardinal of poems answering
the "lo" description.

}dibyzda
}
}vizi dai goi ko'a poi lemi dibyfri cu dibdji lenu rolstu zmapo'e
}
}.i mi pu tirna ko'a va le vacri po'e lo nicte ca mi tirna lenu lo mamta cu
}selsanga co vrucau seva'u lo verba poi ke'a selraktu je fengu vi leka manku

Hm. This translates as: "Dear house at that fact (He1) which my dear
experience wants to universe-gain. I heard him at the night air when I hear
a mother noiselessly singing for a child, troubled and mad in the dark.

That first sentence, at least, seems mangled. I take it dibyzda is not in
the same sentence as vizi..., so an ".i" belongs here. I only noticed
later you included the original, and my comments I've just deleted were
awfully off track. OK then: "vizi" refers only to physical space (in fact,
after the Great Grammar Purges, that should be "vive'i" anyway), and it's
confusing to use it for textual proximity: use "la'edi'e". Your sentence
is missing a verb --- "is". Lojban, as we know, doesn't deal with "is"
gracefully, and it's best to recast the sentence accordingly. So: "My
heart wishes the world had more of this thing" is how you'll have to cast
it in Lojban. With the ordering such as to emphasise "this", that'd come
out as: lenu la'edi'e se zmapo'e le rolstu cu se dibdji lemi dibyfri.

Unfortunately, all the bridi in this sentence trouble me. This has not been
widely talked about to date, but the word "more" turns out to be one of
the more difficult to translate into Lojban, at least without lujvo ---
and even then, it's difficult: you meant "have more of x", where I
interpreted "have more x" (i.e. gain). Also, you speak of possession; but
"have" doesn't always mean possess, and I think here it corresponds better
to "ckaji", characterised by. Where you'd put the "zmadu" to have it make
sense troubles me; the easiest alternative is to mirror the English construct
by using an adverbial BAI: cu mau ckaji ( = cu ckaji mauku = cu ckaji mau
zo'e pe ca = leni da ckaji de cu zmadu zo'e pe ca). It's an alternative I'd
frown on, but I can think of no better succinct equivalent. World has already
been expressed as rolzda, rolremzda, and munje; I can guess what rolstu means,
but would prefer we settle on one of those three as a canonical expression.
And dibyfri (dear experiencer) for heart... hm. Not quite clear. ka dibyfri
or dirba ka lifri at the least; we could kill the poetry and the metonymy and
just say "mi", or maybe compromise with ci'orsei, emotional self.

So I'd suggest:

lenu la'edi'e mau ckaji le rolzda cu se dibdji lemi ci'orsei

And that should be "ca lenu mi tirna", not "ca mi tirna".

}canko
}
}le nicte vaga'a lo trene canko
}cu barda je manku je runti da
}poi popselgu'i le'i jangusmo'a

va and ga'a don't combine to form one preposition. va je ga'a, however, does
work. ranti, not runti. "is" again is giving you trouble; your phrase above
translates to "is big and dark and soft to something which...". da is an
argument of the verb barda je manku je runti; "is a big, dark, soft thing" is
one predicate, which translates as "barda je manku je ranti dacti", or just
"barda ja manku je ranti". Of course, this means the "poi" gets replaced with
a "gi'e". I'd probably go "lei" rather than "le'i" too.

}selze'a cange tumla

zenba is increase, which doesn't necessarily imply improve (besides which,
the current place structure would have zenba, not selze'a). I'd render it
as xagmau (better) or se xagmaugau (bettered).

}claga'u mudrytercrepu pu vi snaji'e di'o vi lo zumtumla cange sekoi la monon

.i loi claga'u mudytercrepu puzavi snaji'e di'o lo zumtumla cange pe sekoi la
monon (The Monon borders the corn farm, not the standing of the trees). Good
choice of brivla, btw.

}.i vi ku lei genja be lo xabminli sela'u bei lei tricu pu condi kakpa leri
}li'ergenja ne'i le frecandre sezu'e ja'irba'u fi le bifyvilcarvi

That's the wrong place for "sela'u" to be hiding: I'd say ".i viku lei genja
be lei tricu pela'u lo xabminli (or: la'elo xabminli, or xabminli linji, or
something). I don't know if we'd consider roots capable of digging in Lojban,
but I'd allow it; but Lojban doesn't dig roots into dirt, it digs holes out
of dirt. This sounds like a job for "setca". So: ".i viku lei genja be lei
tricu pela'u lo xabminli pu condi setca leri li'ergenja le frecandre tezu'e
lenu ja'irba'u vo'a le bifyvilcarvi

}.i babo lei mudyka'a pu klama gi'e lei cmamudyspi cu voicliva teki'i le
}jimdaxsa'e co gasta je terja'i

gi'e links two brivla, not two sentences --- that's ".ije". I'd alsi use
"sekai" rather than teki'i. terja'i is correct, but a bit elliptical; maybe
tciterja'i?

}.i lei tsacinla garnyka'afendi pamoi katna lei barda noi lei tricybitc .e
}tricy'ouk ke'o babo lei cmatricu

.i lei tsacinla garnyka'afendi cu pamoi katna lei barda no'u lei tricrbitce
.e lei tricrouke ge'u.ebabo lei cmatricu

}.i le pojri'arDINamita .e bevrycarce .e xirma pu lebna lei tricyjamfa gi'e
}lei plixa cu pezybatci gi'e cabo taifre zumri tumla gi'e selze'a tumla gi'e
}lei xarju cu bacru seri'a lei selrepydja

le pojtutcrdinamite .e loi bevrycarce .e loi xirma pu lebna lei tricyzbepi .i
lei plixa cu pezybatci .ikicabo frerai zumri cange gi'e va'i selxagmaugau
tumla .ije lei xarju cu bacru ga'u lei selrepydja

}.i cababo nadmorji fa levi xabminli sela'u le selze'a cange tumla
}        sekoi la monon zumri tumla
}        gi vi pagbu le banli sratu'u
}        gi fa la'edi'e puka kaspo'e lo banli sanga lanzu co tricu

.i kicabo nadmorji da'i fa levi selxagmaugau cange tumla pela'u lo xabminli
zi'epe sekoi le la monon. zumri tumla
zi'epoi pagbu le banli sratu'a
ledu'u puza ckaji lo banli sanga lanzu co tricu

}Don't think of them as bad translations; think of them as incentive for poor
}old Carl to spin in his grave.

Yeah, yeah, tell it to the judge :) Thanks for that, David. Wavery grammar,
I'll admit, but some really good lujvo.

---
'Dera me xhama t"e larm"e,            T  Nick Nicholas, CgS & CS, Melbourne Uni
 Dera mbas blerimit                   |  nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo)
 Me xhama t"e larm"e!                 |  Milaw ki ellhnika/Esperanto parolata/
 Lumtunia nuk ka ngjyra tjera.'       |  mi ka'e tavla bau la lojban. je'uru'e
 - Martin Camaj, _Nj"e Shp'i e Vetme_ |                *d'oh!*