Re: TECH: Transparence / Opaqueness

[ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>]

Xorxes to Veion:
> >             ko dunda ci plise mi
> >             Give me 3 apples!
> Imperatives by definition are neither true nor false in Lojban. That
> means: make {do dunda ci plise mi} true. Since the distinction between
> opaque and transparent rests on how the truth value of the statement
> is determined, no such distinction is possible for imperatives.

But contrast:
  I hereby command you to make it true that there are 3 apples that
     I'm given
  There are three apples such that I hereby command you to give
     me them

The transparent/opque distinction (I suggest, out of my depth) has
to do with scope of quantification with resepect to some 'irrealis'
element of meaning, & a command, even in the form of an imperative,
constitutes an irrealis element. (CF. "Give me a book - any book".)

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And