Re: New use for an auxlang

[Bob LeChevalier-Logical Language Group <lojbab@lojban.org>]

At 02:38 PM 4/29/99 +0300, you wrote:
>From: Robin Turner <robin@Bilkent.EDU.TR>
>> >To be easily and unambiguously machine-readable, a Eoruclone auxlang
would have
>> >to depart from Indo-European grammar so radically that it wouldn't be a
>> >Euroclone any more.
>>
>> For what I've read of DLT project (and they were experts on this), it
>> seems that necessary departure was not so "radical".
>
>Can you clarify?

The DLT project used a modified Esperanto as its Interlingua, using
auxiliary markings to disambiguate.  The DLT intenral language could not be
said to be speakably unambiguous, but apparently it was so in
computer-media.  But the project was never finsished so it is less than
clear how universally effective the DLT language was.  One of the former
DLT linguists is an occasional Lojbanist not active on this list.

>> >I don't see major problems with Lojban semantics, since
>> >they tend to be more, rather than less specified than European natlangs.
>>
>> However, I think the semantic range of terms of a european-based lang
>> (eg. esperanto) fit very closely to those of the languages where those
>> terms are taken from. I doubt something similar can be said for
>> Lojban, which on its origins was designed to prove the Sapir-Wolf
>> hypothesis.

Loglan/Lojban semantics were not designed to be "different", but rather to
be linguistically rather neutral.  The version of Sapir-Whorf that we had
in mind focussed on grammar/structure rather than on semantics.

Lojban does not have the psychological links based on etymological
similarity that some European languages have.  This can make some aspects
of machine translation harder, but can also eliminate many more errors that
would be caused by false-friend assumptions.  As I have often noted, the
various Euro language words for "morning" have differences of meaning from
language to language, and using the same interlingua word for each will
work most of the time, but fail randomly when one target language uses a
different word.  For example, I arose at "2:30 in the morning", to log on
and check mail.  In some languages that phrase in literal translation makes
no sense.


>The Sapir-Whorf aspect of the project was less to force people to speak in
a weird
>way (though I admit it does that sometimes) but to give the opportunity to
express a
>lot more things in a lot more ways.

Specifically, it was designed to remove restrictions of certain kinds from
language, while it does impose other kinds of distinctions not found in
typical natlangs.  The latter, however are mostly optional, and hence
probably not affect computer applications, which would undoubtedly use a
convenient subset of the language.

>Actually Lojban has been criticised by some for having an English bias in its
>concepts - just can't please some people.  I think the question is how
well you
>expect people to know the IAL that is used in this project.  Some with
good Lojban
>would have no problems in expressing the concepts of any Eurolang they
were familiar
>with, I think.  It's getting it back that's a bit of a problem, but a
reasonably
>large dictionary (so you don't have top work out every compound word from
scratch)
>would probably do the trick, once usage has standardised use of compound
words a bit
>more.

The difficulty of machine translation using an Interlingua is almost
entirely on respresenting the source language into the Interlingua.  Going
th other way is relatively easy, especially if you are willing to tolerate
some unidiomatic usage.  Even Nora's glosser, a fairly unsophisticated
program linguistically compared to current machine translation efforts,
works pretty well on simple sentences.

lojbab


----
lojbab                     ***NOTE NEW ADDRESS***           lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA               703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: 
  see Lojban WWW Server: href=" http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/ "
  Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.