Re: Lojban analogies and kennings; also "pe'a/po'a"

[Ron Hale-Evans <rwhe@apocalypse.org>]

Thanks for your response, Jorge!

>From: "Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>
>
>>From: Ron Hale-Evans <rwhe@apocalypse.org>
>>
>> L1. menske : menli :: ji'eske : xadni
>>
>> L2. .i ke menske tai menli ke'e tai ke ji'eske tai xadni ke'e
>>
>> L3. .i menske du menli ji'eske

<snip>

>L2 is ungrammatical. The cmavo of selmaho BAI, like {tai},
>can be used to tag a sumti or a selbri, much like tenses.
>They don't work as connectives by themselves. You might
>say something like:
>
> zo menske peki'i zo menli zo ji'eske peki'i zo xadni panra
> {menske} in relationship to {menli} is parallel to
> {ji'eske} in relationship to {xadni}.

Thanks. I don't want to talk about the words, though; I want to talk 
about abstract things. How about this?

   lo menske peki'i lo menli cu panra lo ji'eske peki'i lo xadni

What is "peki'i", BTW? Some kind of compound cmavo? I couldn't find 
"peki'i", "pek", "pe" or "ki'i" in any wordlist or the Red Book.

>>I'm pretty sure L3 is ungrammatical; what's wrong with it?
>
>It is grammatical, but it doesn't say what you want.
>It is a four component tanru. {du} is just another brivla,
>like {menske}, {menli} and {ji'eske}. You might say:
>
>     zo menske cu munsi'u lu menli ji'eske li'u
>     {menske} has the same meaning as {menli ji'eske}.

What about this?

   lo menske cu du lo menli ji'eske pe'a

I'm using "pe'a" according to the Red Book. The _online_ Refgram, 
whose usage I prefer in this instance, would seem to want me to say:

   lo menske cu du lo pe'a menli ji'eske po'a

If anybody's listening (Lojbab? John C.?), I think the latter grammar 
is more generally useful, since it lets you mark whole tanru or even 
sentences as figurative, whereas the Red Book _seems_ to imply that 
you can only mark the previous word.

If "pe'a" and "po'a" conflict with "lo", which is veridical, how about this:

   lo menske cu du pe'a lo menli ji'eske po'a

Again, something you can't do with "pe'a" alone.

--Ron

--
Ron Hale-Evans: rwhe@apocalypse.org & http://www.apocalypse.org/~rwhe/
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