From: "Adam Raizen" <araizen@newmail.net>
To: "Jorge Llambias" <jjllambias@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Not because
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 21:44:13 -0000
la xorxes cusku di'e
>
> la lojbab cusku di'e
>
> >You thus can use ki'u lenu (they love firecrackers) kei ki'unai
lenu (they
> >are not Americans).
>
> I agree.
"ki'unai" (mu'inai, etc.) is often used for despite, but I don't think
it means exactly that. According to the book, chapter 9, section 13,
BAI + nai is a contradictory negation of the BAI cmavo. Thus "vy salci
le se detri be li 4/7 ki'unai le nu vy na merko" means something like
"le nu vy na merko na krinu le nu vy salci le se detri be li 4/7",
except that the second doesn't assert that "vy salci li'o", (chap 9,
sec 7). That they're not Americans isn't asserted in either case, just
that it's not the reason. Putting it in a separate sentence
("iki'unaibo vy na merko") would assert that they aren't Americans, I
think.
> >Or join the second clause with ijeki'unai which makes it more clear
that
> >they are not Americans because of the ije
>
> But this one doesn't work so well, because you'd be saying
> that the ki'unai clause applies to the whole previous sentence,
> ki'u included, and that is not the wanted meaning.
>
> What would be the selbri corresponding to ki'unai the way
> that krinu corresponds to ki'u? It is not nalki'u, but it
> seems that tolki'u could work:
>
> tolki'u: x1 is no obstacle for/does not prevent x2.
> x2 happens in spite of/even though x1.
If I'm not mistaken, the selbri corresponding to "ki'unai" is "na
krinu". "tolki'u" might mean "x1 is a reason that not x2", or maybe
"not x1 is a reason for x2", or maybe something else.
> > >The Vietnamese get into the Fourth of July celebrations because
they
> >enjoy
> > >firecrackers, not because they live below me.
> >
> >Since the second clause is irrelevant, you can join it with .iju,
making it
> >.ijuki'unai only if you want to show the parallel to the former.
>
> But then it is not asserted that they live below me. I think this
> one is just:
>
> le nu vy nelci lei tanfagri kei enai le nu vy xabju le cnita be mi
> cu krinu le nu vy salci le se detri be li vopi'eze
It's still not directly asserted that they live below me. Maybe:
vy salci le se detri be li 4/7 ki'u le nu nelci lei tanfagri
iki'unaibo vy xabju ni'a mi
(Not sure about "tanfagri". How about "fagjakne"?)
co'o mi'e adam