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Re: [lojban] conditionals in Lojban

At 12:07 AM 04/24/2001 +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote:

la lojbab cusku di'e
>With no information about the medium of expression, all I can say is
>ko'a cusku lu'e leka gleki

Right, koha says a symbol for happiness,


ko'a EXPRESSES a symbol for happiness


 which is not
the same as expressing/showing/displaying happiness. If I
understood pc's point correctly, we could have:

  le nu cusku lu mi gleki li'u tadji le nu xusra le du'u gleki
  Saying "mi gleki" is a way of asserting that one is happy.

  le nu cusku zo ui tadji le nu jarco le ka gleki
  Saying "ui" is a way of expressing one's happiness.

{cusku} is not the same as expressing. But since the gi'uste
does give "expresses" as one of the glosses, it is actually
used sometimes in that sense, ignoring the place structure
and putting a property in x2, which is what "expresses" would
require.
I think you express (cusku) a sign/symbol for a property in some medium of communication. You might jarco a property 


> >Yes, if you redefine "emotion" as "anything expressed by Lojban
> >attitudinals", then every attitudinal expresses an emotion.
>
>Emotion:
>"strong feeling; exctiement"
>"The state or capability of having the feelings aroused to the point of
>awareness"
>"Any specific feeling"

Like the feeling of suggestion?
We might use the word "urging" to convey it more strongly as an "emotion" in English. 


The feeling of permission?
If you become a parent, you will come to realize that this can also be emotive (for one thing, you can display it as a property as opposed to asserting it). 


I don't see the point of forcing the meaning of words to fit
some theory. Not all attitudinals express what is commonly
understood as "emotion", and there's nothing wrong with that.
Not all attitudes are emotional.
Maybe using the English definition of the term. Certainly the discursives which are grammatically part of the attitudinals are not generally emotional. Or maybe they are? Perhaps by having them expressible as if they were emotions, they will come to be associated with an emotional state in which case there will be no question that they ARE emotions. Now THAT would be an undeniable Sapir-Whorf effect! 

lojbab
--
lojbab                                             lojbab@lojban.org
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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Artificial language Loglan/Lojban:                 http://www.lojban.org