[lojban] Re: spofu skami

[Invent Yourself <xod@thestonecutters.net>]

On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:42:37PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote:
> > On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 01:22:54PM -0500, Invent Yourself wrote:
> > > > 'nirna' means things that neuron, or are neuron-like or that do
> > > > what neurons do, which isn't restricted to Neurons. It seems that
> > > > Neurons can go into nirna x1, but there are lo nirna that aren't
> > > > Neurons.
> > >
> > > neuron:
> > >
> > > 1.  Has dozens, sometimes hundreds of connections to other neurons.
> > >
> > > 2.  Collates inbound data as an aggregate to decide whether to send
> > > outbound data.
> > >
> > > 3.  Has a wide range of physical shapes, but generally consists of a
> > > bundle of goo attached to a long rod of goo with some feelers off
> > > the end of the rod.
> > >
> > > 4.  Conists mostly of carbon, with some nitrogen, oxygen, and other
> > > trace elements.
> > >
> > > I believe those are all the major necessary and sufficient features
> > > of a neuron.
> > >
> > > Not a *SINGLE* *ONE* of those points applies to an ethernet cable, a
> > > fiber optice cable, a small number of networked computers, or a
> > > sigle computer data switch.
> > >
> > > NONE OF THEM.  NOT ONE.
> >
> >
> > The gismu definition doesn't list these. How do you know they all
> > pertain to nirna such that every lo nirna must have them?
>
> Because all I have do go on is the fact that the definition consist
> entirely of the words "nerve" and "neuron".


No. You also have, to go on, the text that you don't like, but is there
clearly in the gi'uste.


>
> > Instead of looking at the differences, you might look at the
> > similarities.
>
> *WHAT* similarities?!?  Nerves collect data, collate it, and push it to
> other things *just* *like* *them*.  I am aware of *no* human-made
> networking system that scales beyond two nodes that consists entirely of
> the same type of object; there is *always* a mediator.  Computers don't
> talk to computers, they talk to switches.  Fiber optic cables don't push
> data at all, there are mere a transmission medium.  <wry>The axon, if
> you will.</wry>
>
> And, by the way, similarities between what and what, exactly?  Is a
> fiber optic cable a nirna?  Is a networked computer a nirna?  Is two
> cans and a piece of string a nirna? Does that make a piece of string a
> nirna?  Is a phone switch a nirna? Is a phone a nirna?  Is a phone cable
> a nirna?  Is a pair of headphones a nirna?  Is a loudspeaker a nirna?
> Is an ssh connection a nirna?  Is a mail reader a nirna?  Is yelling
> really loud a nirna?  Hey, talking is a an "information/control network
> connection", right?  Talking is a nirna!  We don't need tavla, we have
> nirna!  Oh, I guess we don't need cusku either!  Weee, isn't this fun!


I know that I could do the same process with each and every gismu
definition.



> Yes, some of that was hyperbole, but far from all of it.
>
> And you wonder why I'm concerned about polysemy in this case.  Yeesh.
>
> I've explained myself *thoroughly*.  Now it's your turn.


I don't have anything to explain. nirna can have one definition that
covers more than the English "neuron" or "nerve", without being polysemic.



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