[lojban] Re: A Proposed Explanation of {gunma}

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On 12/15/05, John E Clifford <clifford-j@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> It should be noted -- pragmatically again -- that
> in contexts where the distributivity/collectivity
> is at issue, {lo} becomes the marker for
> distributivity just by not being {loi}.

Not any more that it becomes the marker for non-distributivity
just by not being {ro}.

In contexts where distributivity is at issue, {lo} can go either
way, and if context is not sufficient to disambiguate, the
speaker has simply failed to provide enough information.

>  On the other hand, the gadri
> and quantifier methods of indicating predication
> are technically inadequate since they do not say
> what kind of predication is involved in the
> description itself: "Those who (together)
> surround the building are red-haired" might need
> to be distinguished from "Those who (each)
> surround the bulding are very long walls" for
> example.

Right, when you need such precision, the price is more
wordiness. For example:

  ro da poi lu'o ke'a sruri le dinju cu xunre kerfa

  ro sruri be le dinju cu clani bitmu

{lo ro sruri be le dinju cu xunre kerfa} is perfectly understandable,
but does not include any distribution information explicitly.

> The gadri indiciation also complicates
> collapsing cases of two kinds of predication with
> a common core: "The wall (by itself) and the
> students (together) surround the bulding"

That one is not hard:

  le bitmu .e loi tadni cu sruri le dinju

{.e} is distributive, and {loi} is not.

> and as
> above "John and Mary (separately) picked up tools
> and (together) started to build a house."

Right, this one requires splitting into two sentences.

> {pagbu} will not always work for "part" if
> transitivity is maintained, since I am a part of
> society and my liver is a part of me, but my
> liver is not a part of society.

I suspect that might be because of the ambiguity of "I/me",
in one case referring to my person and in the other to my
body: My person is part of society and my liver is part of
my body, but I would not say that my body is part of
society or that my liver is part of my person.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.