[lojban] Re: Philosophical differences.

[Minimiscience <minimiscience@gmail.com>]

de'i li 20 pi'e 07 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Lindar Greenwood .fy. cusku zoi
skamyxatra.
> 1. vlagi
> 
> It does not make sense to have a word which specifically refers to the
> external female genitalia when we have "plibu".
.skamyxatra

I fail to see what benefit there is from removing "{vlagi}" that outweighs the
problems that would result from spontaneously dropping a perfectly cromulent
word from the language.

> 2. xagji
> 
> I've had this discussion at great length with people in the chat, over
> and over again, until everybody pretty much wanted me to go die in a
> fire. There is absolutely no way to describe "sleepy", and while my
> personal usage of the word may differ from others, it doesn't change
> the lack of such a concept in Lojban.

"{mlita'i}" is a perfectly suitable translation for "sleepy" as I use it.
Exactly what sense of "sleepy" are you claiming is lacking?

> tatpi means tired, as in physically fatigued, and one must rest a moment
> before continuing any activities. xagji means one is hungry, and must eat
> before continuing any activities. taske means one is thirsty, and must drink
> before continuing activities. None of these imply need ...

They *do* imply need, at least in the Lojbanic sense; the x3 of "{nitcu}" (or
the x2 of "{sarcu}") can be used to describe what the alleviation of the need
is a prerequisite for.

> ... as there are plenty of people that get hungry without needing to eat,
> there are plenty of people that get thirsty without needing to drink, etc.
> This also does not imply desire as there are plenty of people that desire to
> eat regardless of hunger. Keeping this in mind, how do we express that one is
> sleepy? One does not necessarily need sleep, as outlined in previous examples
> related to food/drink/rest/etc., and one does not necessarily desire sleep,
> as also outlined in previous examples.

If you need sleep but do not desire it, you can say "{siptcu}."  If you desire
sleep but do not need it, you can say "{sipydji}."  If you neither need nor
desire sleep, how can you be considered sleepy?

> Therefore, we have several concepts that have a unique value in common, which
> I could inadequately describe as an intrinsic physical need, separate from
> the desires of the mind, and separate from what constitutes actual need. 

How is intrinsic physical need distinct from "actual need"?  Even if you are
not at the point of "If I don't take care of this right now, I'll die," your
body can still require things in order to improve performance and/or alleviate
pain, and the purpose of this need can be specified by the x3 of "{nitcu}."

> 3. Cultural gismu.
> 
> Just fix it already.

Yes, they need to be fixed, but how?  Should we add more cultural {gismu} or
remove cultural {gismu}?  Should we completely reorganize the cultural {gismu}
into a set of generic cultures and words for subdividing them into hierarchies
in a way that will be seen as completely racist by our grandchildren?  Should
we just leave it as it is and stick with flimsy excuses for why they shouldn't
or don't need to be changed?  If you're complaining about a lack of a solution,
perhaps you should suggest a solution of your own.

> 4. Computer words.
> 
> Face it, we're pretty much all huge nerds. We need words for "window",
> "website", "internet", "software", "hardware", and various other
> things.

That's what {lujvo} are for.  Use them.

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

-- 
mi citka loi cidjrspageti fi'o sanmi lo cersai


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.