[lojban] Re: xorlo

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Well, I disagree that it leads to trouble if one is careful to keep the rules in mind, but I take your point (as I have before) and try to always offer at least the bunchless alternative formulation.  As an old-timer, I just find the locution of bunches or whatever easier to say, even though I either don't really believe in them or think of them as vanishing insignificant ways of speaking.  I note in passing that, mereology has no predicate "is a whole," so the sense in which it introduces wholes (or bunches or whatever) seems rather slim.  I know, I know; it quantifies over them and so they exist, but in fact, it doesn't every say what it quantifies over. That is all metalanguage and the two versions are totally congruent.



----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 10:54:17 AM
Subject: [lojban] Re: xorlo

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:04 AM, John E Clifford<kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> (I use "bunch" and even that bugs xorxes, who wants no
> hint of an entity between the brodas and their expression, so just "(Some)
> brodas").

Yes, the reason it bugs me is that for me any quantification of "LE
broda" should only be concerned with things that count as broda. Using
words such as mass/group/bunch can be harmless, as long as one is not
tempted by these words to start quantifying over new entities. If we
do quantify over those new things, we are no longer counting brodas
and so I prefer to use a different selbri for that new type of entity,
"lo gunma be lo broda", "lo girzu be lo broda", "lo selcmi be lo
broda", and so on. Using gadri to introduce these new entities just
leads to trouble.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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