Re: [lojban] Re: mass-uploading?

lo se fraxu a receive forgivenesser

Which ought to be "a receiver of forgiveness".

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

I had to convert it into a Google doc to edit it, due to limitations with the public computer I'm using. (Not having your own computer sucks, and I will be VERY happy when I get mine back.)

So far, I've gotten to {lo se fraso}, and your automatic generation leaves a lot to be desired. That is at least partly my fault.

The gismu sumti all need to have the keyword in their definitions. This way learners will be able to identify which gismu it is a sumti of, which I believe should make the gismu sumti easier to memorize, and to prevent technically correct wrong answers. For instance:

fepni x1 is measured in money subunits as quantity x2 in monetary system x3

The keyword (or phrase, in this case,) is "money subunits". So all the gismu sumti need to have that.

Your automatic generation produced:

lo fepni a thing measured in money subunits
lo se fepni a quantity of money subunits

lo te fepni a monetary system

{lo te fepni} should be changed to "a monetary system with money subunits"

This is especially important in cases such as the following:

gapru x1 is directly above x2 in reference frame x3
lo gapru something above

lo se gapru something beneath
lo te gapru a reference frame of aboveness

cnita x1 is directly beneath or below x2 in reference frame x3
lo cnita something beneath

lo se cnita something above
lo te cnita a reference frame of beneathness

{lo gapru} = {lo se cnita}, {lo se gapru} = {lo cnita}

If Smart.fm quizzes on {lo gapru}, for instance, and displays the correct answer for {lo se cnita}, a learners answering with that will be told the answer is incorrect, even though, technically, it's not.

In this case, {lo se gapru} can be changed to "something to which something is above", and {lo se cnita} to "something to which something is beneath". (The "to which" bit isn't absolutely necessary, but "something something ...." sounds odd to me. There may be a better way of phrasing it than I've put here, but I can't think of it.)

Secondly, many of the definitions are in the form "a thing ...." or "a ... thing". I would prefer those to be "something ....". "a thing ...." is easily corrected with a simple find/replace and I've already done that with the document.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:

Erm. Sorry, sorting it means that you have no easy way to figure
out which stuff I added. My bad.

http://teddyb.org/~rlpowell/public_media/simplified_gismu.tsv

I'll re-sort it when I upload.

This used the google doc as a starting point and filled in anything
that was blank.

-Robin

On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 05:52:32PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> http://teddyb.org/~rlpowell/public_media/simplified_gismu_sorted.tsv
>
> That's sorted by frequency of usage, so you don't spend a bunch of
> time learning random crap.
>
> Now, what about the cmavo?
>
> -Robin
>
> On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 02:56:46PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > Sounds good to me.
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Robin Lee Powell
> > <[1]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> >
> > OK, but it sounded like you'd have to manually copy and paste
> > whatever I do, which is a horrible waste of effort.
> >
> > Since it's all just going to drive my script anyways, I think it
> > would be better if you just edit what I come up with directly, and
> > send it back.
> > -Robin
> > On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 01:03:35PM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > Honestly, I'd much rather edit the items BEFORE they are uploaded
> > > to Smart.fm, because that would be easier and much less time
> > > consuming.
> > >
> > > I doubt you've ever tried to edit an item on Smart.fm, so take my
> > > word for it that it is at least five times as difficult to edit an
> > > item after being uploaded than it is to double-check the items in
> > > a document beforehand- which as far as I'm concerned is the main
> > > reason for the Google doc.
> > >
> > > If you can give me the gismu sumti, and some time to double check
> > > the list so that we won't need to worry about editing the items
> > > after the upload, I can fix up the Google doc to be exactly what
> > > your script needs, with all the needed information and formatting.
> > >
> > > On 3/7/10, Robin Lee Powell <[2]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > > > That would be my site, and those would be my scripts, and the sound
> > > > uploads via API are *still* broken:
> > > > [3]http://developer.smart.fm/forum/read/67134
> > > >
> > > > There's a workaround, though; give me a day or so and I'll have a
> > > > complete upload done with good-enough text, which y'all can then
> > > > edit to your heart's content (since I'm told people can be allowed
> > > > to edit each other's items now).
> > > >
> > > > Anybody who wants to edit the results should send me their
> > [4]smart.fm
> > > > userid.
> > > >
> > > > -Robin
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 11:25:43AM -0700, Jonathan Jones wrote:
> > > >> Okay, a little Google search and I found the following
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > site:�[1][5]http://teddyb.org/rlp/tiki-index.php?page=Mass+Upload+To+Smart.FM,
> > > >> which has two Ruby scripts specifically for mass uploading
> > items.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jonathan Jones
> > <[2][6]eyeonus@gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Okay, but what about uploading the items themselves? As far as
> > I know
> > > >> they haven't even done that bit yet.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Robin Lee Powell
> > > >> <[3][7]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Mar 07, 2010 at 05:38:37PM +0100, Timo Paulssen
> > wrote:
> > > >> > [4][8]smart.fm already offers an interface that a script
> > can access,
> > > >> the
> > > >> > website itself. With the right tools, it should be
> > possible to
> > > >> > mass-upload the valsi definitions as well as the sounds
> > without
> > > >> > the [5][9]smart.fm folks having to expose any other kind
> > of API to
> > > >> us.
> > > >> I
> > > >> > dunno if rlp knows how to best do that, though.
> > > >>
> > > >> The sound uploads via API are broken:
> > > >> [6][10]http://developer.smart.fm/forum/read/67134
> > > >>
> > > >> I suppose I could use the HTTP based upload instead of the
> > > >> multipart
> > > >> upload; just makes the script less useful to other people.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Robin
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> They say: �"The first AIs will be built by the military as
> > > >> weapons."
> > > >> And I'm �thinking: �"Does it even occur to you to try for
> > something
> > > >> other �than �the default �outcome?" �See
> > > >> [7][11]http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > > >> [8][12]http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ ***
> > > >> [9][13]http://www.lojban.org/
> > > >>
> > > >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
> > > >> [10][14]lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > > >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to
> > > >> [11][15]http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> > > >> you're really stuck, send mail to
> > [12][16]secretary@lojban.org for
> > > >> help.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > > >>
> > > >> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > > >>
> > > >> .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
> > > >>
> > > >> References
> > > >>
> > > >> Visible links
> > > >> 1.
> > [17]http://teddyb.org/rlp/tiki-index.php?page=Mass+Upload+To+Smart.FM
> > > >> 2. mailto:[18]eyeonus@gmail.com
> > > >> 3. mailto:[19]rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
> > > >> 4. [20]http://smart.fm/
> > > >> 5. [21]http://smart.fm/
> > > >> 6. [22]http://developer.smart.fm/forum/read/67134
> > > >> 7. [23]http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > > >> 8. [24]http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/
> > > >> 9. [25]http://www.lojban.org/
> > > >> 10. mailto:[26]lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > > >> 11. [27]http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/
> > > >> 12. mailto:[28]secretary@lojban.org
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
> > > > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
> > > > other than the default outcome?" See
> > [29]http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > > > [30]http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ ***
> > [31]http://www.lojban.org/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
> > [32]lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to
> > [33]http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> > > > you're really stuck, send mail to [34]secretary@lojban.org for help.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> > >
> > > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
> > [35]lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to
> > [36]http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> > > you're really stuck, send mail to [37]secretary@lojban.org for help.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
> > And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
> > other than the default outcome?" See [38]http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > [39]http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ ***
> > [40]http://www.lojban.org/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to
> > [41]lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to [42]http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/,
> > or if
> > you're really stuck, send mail to [43]secretary@lojban.org for help.
> >
> > --
> > mu'o mi'e .aionys.
> >
> > .i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu
> >
> > References
> >
> > Visible links
> > 1. mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
> > 2. mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
> > 3. http://developer.smart.fm/forum/read/67134
> > 4. http://smart.fm/
> > 5. http://teddyb.org/rlp/tiki-index.php?page=Mass+Upload+To+Smart.FM
> > 6. mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com
> > 7. mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
> > 8. http://smart.fm/
> > 9. http://smart.fm/
> > 10. http://developer.smart.fm/forum/read/67134
> > 11. http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > 12. http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/
> > 13. http://www.lojban.org/
> > 14. mailto:lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > 15. http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/
> > 16. mailto:secretary@lojban.org
> > 17. http://teddyb.org/rlp/tiki-index.php?page=Mass+Upload+To+Smart.FM
> > 18. mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com
> > 19. mailto:rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
> > 20. http://smart.fm/
> > 21. http://smart.fm/
> > 22. http://developer.smart.fm/forum/read/67134
> > 23. http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > 24. http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/
> > 25. http://www.lojban.org/
> > 26. mailto:lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > 27. http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/
> > 28. mailto:secretary@lojban.org
> > 29. http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > 30. http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/
> > 31. http://www.lojban.org/
> > 32. mailto:lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > 33. http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/
> > 34. mailto:secretary@lojban.org
> > 35. mailto:lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > 36. http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/
> > 37. mailto:secretary@lojban.org
> > 38. http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> > 39. http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/
> > 40. http://www.lojban.org/
> > 41. mailto:lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> > 42. http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/
> > 43. mailto:secretary@lojban.org
>
> --
> They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
> And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
> other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
> http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
> you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.
>

--
They say: "The first AIs will be built by the military as weapons."
And I'm thinking: "Does it even occur to you to try for something
other than the default outcome?" See http://shrunklink.com/cdiz
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/

To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko klama le bende pe denpa bu