Re: [lojban] Retraction, Part 1 (fwd)

[Nick NICHOLAS <nicholas@uci.edu>]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, John Cowan wrote:

> Nick NICHOLAS wrote:
> > Are you now saying that the "le ninmu" = "lo nanmu" (transvestite) example
> > is inapplicable? Or are you saying that given enough context, a
> > transvestite conventionally described as "le ninmu" can also be seen as
> > "lo ninmu"?
> The latter, I think.  A TV may not be a prototypical woman, but s/he
> may be just within the fuzzy ninmu orbital.  If we are talking about
> socially assigned responses to gender, "lo ninmu" may be just the
> thing.

Then I have missed the point of the example, which I thought was
illustrating only non-veridicality, not non-prototypicality. Again, I
shall go forth and sin no more.

> > ... On the other hand, I now see in the refgramm that "le" is defined as
> > +definite -veridical, and not as I remembered it, +/-definite -veridical.
> "le" is +specific -veridical.  Definiteness is more or less managed
> by "bi'u".  Where does the refgram say that "le" is +definite?

It doesn't; yet again, my misconstrual. The arguments made against {le
jipci} still hold for +specific rather than +definite.

> > This means in the general case that {ka} is not an intension --- a
> > property *of* something, ellipsed or not ---
> I don't follow this.

I meant, I think Lojbab thinks this --- that you can have {ka} clauses in
which none of the places are implied to be {ce'u}. I'm tired of the "he
said, she said", though.

> > The Refgramm says "mi djuno lenu la frank. cu bebna" is
> > 'not quite right',
> On your recommendation, as it happens.  (This is not a criticism.)

Happy you remember this. I admit, I have no recollection of saying
anything about nu or du'u back then at all.

As a metanote to all this: the language may well
bear a lot of my imprint, but I don't recall it; it has been seven years,
after all since I had anything to do with Lojban.
I do not recognise the person who wrote the emails under
my name archived at http://www.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban . This is one more
reason I'm reticent to take credit for any of the great works that other
Nick may have done.

-- 
==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==  ==
Nick Nicholas, Breathing  {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu}
nicholas@uci.edu                   -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias