[lojban] Re: loglan/lojban masses/sets

[Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>]

--- Evgeni Sklyanin <eks2@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> coi rodo
> 
> Could someone give me a summary of the correspondence between Loglan 
> and Lojban articles for sets and masses?

This is not a simple issue, considering that there is not much
agreement on how articles work exactly in Lojban. I give you
my answer, which is likely not identical to the official one.

Loglan "le" is Lojban {le}. That's the easy one.

Loglan does not have gadri corresponding to le'i/lo'i.
JCB made it clear that by "set" he never meant sets as 
used in mathematics or logic or any technical sense, but 
a more ordinary sense of a group of things considered 
together. So Loglan "leu" is Lojban {lei}. (The canonical
example is the men carrying the log, which uses leu
in Loglan and lei in Lojban. In Lojban the men tend to
carry a piano instead of a log.)

Loglan "lea", the gigantic individual, is probably 
Lojban's {piro loi}, the whole mass.

Loglan "lo" is what And once described as "the myopic
singularizer", all the individuals considered as one
individual (not added together as with "lea" but all 
superposed into one). For a long time I used Lojban 
{lo'e} for this as a generic. But now I am using Lojban 
{lo}, thus returning to the origins in some sense.

Loglan does not have anything equivalent to {lo}
as {su'o lo}. For that it simply uses the equivalent 
of {su'o broda}.

As far as I know it doesn't have anything like lo'e/le'e
either. 
 
> Comparing our languages we have stuck with the articles/descriptors. 
> In particular, I wonder how can I translate from Loglan to Lojban 
> {Focu mrenu} --- a quartet of persons? Is it {lo'i vo prenu} or 
> something else? 

With my current understanding, I'd say {lo vo prenu} for the generic 
case (as in "this is meant to be played by a quartet") or
{le vo prenu} if you have a particular quartet in mind. 
More traditional Lojbanists would say {lo prenu vomei} or
{lo vomei prenu, but don't ask for the tanru expansion.

mu'o mi'e xorxes



	
		
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