Re: [lojban] Named multiples

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 5:15 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/5/7 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
>>
>> Merge the syntactic classes cmevla and brivla, yes. Brivla would still
>> be divided in four morphological classes: gismu/lujvo/fu'ivla/cmevla,
>> but there is no need for the last class to have its own separate
>> syntax.
>
> I guess the merging would involve changing the stress rules for cmevla a
> little bit.

No, the phonological/morphological rules are totally independent of
what I'm saying. All the phonological rules accomplish is break down a
string of phonemes into a string of words. Once we have those words
identified, how they are then structured to form a text is independent
of the previous step.

> Firstly, no stress for monosyllabic cmevla, especially when used
> as a selbri. Otherwise the likes of {ko'a JAN je prenu} would be a problem.

Not really. The cmevla ".jan." will be identified as a cmevla whether
it is stressed or not. Any string of phonemes without an intervening
pause that ends in consonant plus pause is a cmevla. Stress is
irrelevant. If you are thinking that "JAN je" could be identified as a
gismu, it can't because the cmevla must end with a pause. Just as in
"la JAN ji la JEN cu prenu", which can't be understood as "la janji la
jencu prenu".

> Secondly, the stress position would have to be fixed in some way. Imagine a
> nation whose name could be lojbanized as {nantanmin} with the original
> stress on the first {nan}. {ti NANtanmin cidja}, intended to mean "this is
> Nantanmin-type-of food", could possibly be mistaken for {ti NANtan mincidja}

Not possible, because "nantan mincidja" requires a pause after
"nantan" and no pause after "min", while "nantanmin cidja" requires no
pause between "nantan" and "min", and a pause after "min". In fact "la
NANtanmin cidja" is currently grammatical and cannot be mistaken as
"la NANtan mincidja".

> or even {tiNAN tanmincidja}. Doing away with the stress wouldn't solve this.
> But would {nantanMIN} or {nanTANmin}?

You are forgetting that cmevla must always end with a pause after the
final consonant. That's their identifying trait.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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