Re: [lojban] Re: Chemical elements

[Daniel Brockman <dbrockman@gmail.com>]

>> This obscure naming exercise seems rather pointless to me.
>
> Which exercise? There have been several, and you didn't quote anything.

All of them, I guess, then?

>> The priority should be to invent a way to talk about these atoms,
>> molecules, compounds, etc., using clear, compositional expressions.
>
> I agree. There are, though, some common, but complicated, molecules, such as
> porphyrin, the square chelating molecule common to heme, chlorophyll, and
> vitamin B12.

Yes, of course, those can get names.  But what I saw (I didn't read the
thread too carefully) was attempts to name particles _systematically_.

>> What are the basic brivla that we need to express these concepts?
>>
>> For example, is this a missing brivla?
>>
>>     x1 is an atom with x2 protons and x3 neutrons
>
> {ratni} has the total number of nucleons in x3. One could make a lujvo.

Okay, I didn't realize that.  That's fine, of course.  Potato, potato.

>> This?
>>
>>     x1 is a nucleus of atom x2
>
> {ratmidju}, though jbovlaste currently has no better def than noralujv's for
> it.

OK.  I'll fix it.

>> Or this?
>>
>>     x1 is an ion of atom x2 with x3 extra electrons
>
> {ionti}

Nice!

>> What about this?
>>
>>     x1 is a molecule consisting of atoms x2
>
> Apparently missing. {xumsle} has the chemical in x2.

How about {ratni zei girzu}, {ratgri}?

    girzu: x1 is group/cluster/team showing common property x2
    due to set x3 linked by relations x4.

    ratgri: x1=g1 is a molecule consisting of atoms x2=g3=r1
    with form x3=g4 and properties x4=g2

Sound good?

>> Or this?
>>
>>     x1 is an alkane with x2 carbon atoms and shape x3

Do you think this one is a good idea?

>> Or what about this one?
>>
>>     x1 is a molecule consisting of x2 attached to hydrocarbon x3 at the
>>     carbon atom in position x4
>
> It's not just hydrocarbons that get things attached to their carbon atoms.
> Some molecules have carbon-and-nitrogen rings with side chains attached.

Okay, so do you have any other idea?

    x1 is a molecule consisting of x2 attached to x3 at a locus
    symbolized by x4 (usually a numerical index)

Would that be a useful building block?

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