Re: [lojban] Illogical English Sign

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

2010/8/6 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:08 AM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  At the hospital where I work, there is a sign in the bathroom which
>> reads, in part, "...Note: Those identified not washing your hands
>> after bathroom use may be approached by your coworkers.  You can avoid
>> this embarrassment!" This makes the logical part of my brain laugh
>> every time I read it.  Translating that into lojban we get ".i ju'i .i
>> lo na'e lumci be lo xance be do be'o bei ba'o lo nu pilno le lumku'a
>> cu ba jai se tolzau la'acu'i lo kansa be do bei lo nu gunka   .i do
>> kakne lo nu rivbi le za'i se burnygau"  It seems to me there are
>> several billion people who don't wash MY hands after using the
>> bathroom (their using, or my using?  It's not clear).  I don't really
>> care if my coworkers approach them, nor am I really sure if my
>> coworkers would.  And how would that embarrass me?
>
> Is the sign really illogical, or just (potentially) ambiguous?
>
> You can reduce the ambiguity considerably by replacing "those of you"
> for "those". Can't "those" be understood that way??
>
> How would you interpret "those with something in your hands"? Does
> "your hands" restrict "those" to "those of you" in this case?
>
> So I see how you can get a funny reading, but I don't really find the
> wording as used illogical. (I do find it unbearably bigbrotherish
> though. Wouldn't a "please wash your hands after ... " or "remember to
> wash your hands after ..." suffice?)
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>

  I considered it to be more pronomial mismatch than ambiguity.
I'd've preferred "Those identified not washing their hands
 after bathroom use may be approached by their coworkers", personally.
(And similarly with your example sentence. I consider it just plain
wrong)  But your solution works just as well, I suppose.

    You might consider it Big Brotherish, but this was an excerpt from
the bottom of this three paragraph sign.  The first was a reminder
from the Center of Disease Control about the importance of hand
washing, and the second an appeal to protect yourself, your family,
your coworkers and patients from disease.  Remember, this is a
hospital, and hand washing is the number one way of avoiding spreading
infections.. a very important consideration in a place where a great
many people are medically fragile and there are many resistant
bacteria and viruses around in the air, on surfaces, etc.  Social
ostracism is an important mechanism of compliance.  They even have
monthly reports of which departments have done the best job washing up
after using the restroom (how they know, I can only guess.  Bathroom
Stasi, I guess)
            --gejyspa

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