On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Pierre Abbat
<phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2010 17:07:16 Jonathan Jones wrote:
> Reposted from a thread on the jbovlaste group:
>
> My entire argument regarding Lojban names for things is as follows:
> > 1) Borrowing words from other languages (fu'ivla) is a Bad Thing (
> >
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/B/Bad-Thing.html) and should only be done
> > when there is NO OTHER WAY. This means ANY language, including Latin.
> >
> > 2) Fluent jbopre are expected to be able to understand any gismu, cmavo,
> > lujvo, etc. that they see without the need to consult a dictionary.
understand "bakrycedra". One who has never heard of a plonebrespa may
erroneously think it's a turtle whose neck folds to fit in the shell.
Unless, you're talking about the Stone Age, I'd say you're argument doesn't hold water. Tell me what you are referring to by "chalk era", and I'll tell you if a fluent English speaker who is ignorant of geology and paleontology (i.e., me) will understand it in English.
> > 3) Specifically regarding creatures: Nearly every creature with a name
> > has a *descriptive* common name, and all Linnean names of things are
> > descriptive, in the Latin language.
Ardipithecus ramidus is an extinct hominid. "Ramidus" looks like a Latin word
meaning "branchy", but in this name it isn't. Both "ardi" and "ramid" are
from the Afar language. "Pongo" (orangutan) is from some Bantu
word "impungu". In "Netta peposaca" (a kind of duck), "peposaca" is
Guaraní. "Selmes" (a mousebird) is an anagram of "Messel" (in Hessen,
Germany), where it was found. For lots more examples, see
www.curioustaxonomy.net.
Thank you for pointing out that not all Linnean names are Latin derived. I hereby retract the ", in the Latin language" clause from my statement. Now, to the point of 3), can you provide examples of Linnaen names that are *not* descriptive. (For the record, I consider something like "Verreaux's Eagle (Aquila verreauxii)" to be descriptive.)
> > 4) As such, I see no reason why a descriptive cmene should not be
> > preferable to a borrowed foreign cmene in *every* case.
>
> I am hereby inviting discussion, critique, etc. regarding the above from
> anyone who wishes to.
Icelandic is one of the languages whose regulators are most zealous about
native words. The word for elephant (fíll) is from Arabic, though it's easy
to make a short description of an elephant that is sufficient to identify it
as such. "ensím" (enzyme) is from Greek, though there is a native-looking
synonym. "tombóla" (carslanu cunterjvi) is from Italian.
Pierre