Re: [lojban] Re: Learning cmavo

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Well, yes, there is the problem of form and function (and derivation) not always 
flowing together well, so a clear demarcation between those various factors (and 
there are probably others) would be useful -- and readily available.  Of course, 
you lose some in group elitism in the process, but clarity and ease of learning 
might make it worthwhile.


----- Original Message ----
From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 10:55:32 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Learning cmavo

On Sunday 10 October 2010 10:15:40 John E Clifford wrote:
> People who display some problems dealing with the technical terminology,
> unique to Lojban, for describing Lojban.  It is hard enough to learn a new
> language, without having to learn a new way of talking about language, a
> way which will make sense only after you learn the language (if then). 
> This manner of talking grew up, sometimes consciously, in response to JCB's
> habitual misuse of English to describe Loglan ("metaphor" for tanru is the
> most infamous example). Somehow, the idea of using English correctly never
> seems to have gained any ground, but it is still available when
> clarification is needed.

Okay, can we list the proper English terms for talking about Lojban?

The "hyphen letter" is an interfix, whether used in a type-3 fu'ivla or a 
lujvo.

A "modal" is a preposition. I call BAI proper prepositions, as distinct from 
tense markers which can also be prepositions. "do'e", however, is a proper 
preposition but not a "modal", as it is not derived from a brivla (though you 
could say it means "fi'o co'e").

"ka'e" and "ca'a" are modals (as the term is used in other languages).

I don't think it's possible to completely avoid using Lojban terminology when 
describing Lojban grammar, just as one can't describe Hebrew grammar without 
using words like "niph`al" (or "N-stem", but the "N" is still a Hebrew 
prefix). But we can use standard linguistic terminology for a lot of it.

Pierre
-- 
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.

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