Re: [lojban] Re: "to pretend" or "to fake"

[Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>]

2010/10/31 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Why not  "ko'a jai tcica mi lo nu krici lo du'u ko'a toju'i ce'u"?
>> What is pretending in that sense other than tricking someone into
>> believing?
>
> I think the difference is that "tricking into" implies success, while
> "pretending" does not. If he tricks you into believeing something,
> then you believe it (otherwise he didn't actually trick you into it).
> If he pretends to do something, you may be able to see through his
> pretense, and so he did not trick you into believeing it. Maybe if you
> add a "troci".
>
>> And so, from there it seems like "kritcica" would be the
>> operative lujvo
>> x1 kritcica x2 x3
>> (tu'a x1)=t1 pretends to k1=t2 that k2 is true?
>
> Is the x1 of kritcica meant to be a person or an event? The symbols
> suggest an event, but the English gloss suggests a person.
>
   A person, but since there is really no way in lojban to grab a
concrete from an abstraction (except perhaps the vague la'e), I had to
phrase it as the tu'a of x1 (the first argument of the kritcica) is
the t1.  Always wished there was an inverse of tu'a.  Feel free to
rewrite in a clearer way.  (I've also always wanted an inverse of
nu/ka, i.e. a way to grab a bridi back from an abstraction, so we can
say things like "I like going to the movies in the afternoon, but
Mikey likes to in the morning" without jumping through hoops ((calling
my idea x'ua for a second) "mi nelci lo nu viska lo skina ca lo
lecydo'i .iku'i la maikis nelci lo nu xu'a lo se go'i ca lo cerni")
Sure, we could use the vague "co'e" but it's ...vague.  Sure, if we
knew in advance we were gonna need an inner bridi, we could use cei,
or construct fa'ustructure, but if not, we're forced to repeat the
whole dang thing (which in this particular case is the rather short
"viska lo skina", but of course it could potentially be much much
longer).)

no'i
 I concede your point though, that tcica does imply snada.

                  --gejyspa

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