Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra

["John E. Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Well, I disagree about what "want" means in English, partly because it doesn't mean anything about having or existing or what have you.  The other problem -- where using English has its problems -- is that doesn't mean anything else very precise, precise enough to explicate what is happening here (and there, for that matter).  English, in my terms, regularly raises terms illegitimately and, in the process, loses the matrix from which they were drawn, so we don't know what the apple, say, was wanted about -- but whatever it was, it was in the original term, not in 'want' (or 'djica').  In "I want an apple" as in 'mi djica lo plise', we don't know what the conditions are that define and finish the requirements in the two counterfactuals, because the term has been raised to replace it -- just as we do not know what was said when we say we talked about counterfactuals.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 31, 2010, at 19:29, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:

I was PMSing yesterday.
I still am today.

((more bitchiness follows))

Seriously, stop using English to define Lojban. That's your whole
problem. You keep saying, "Yeah, it means 'want' like 'I want an
apple'" and that's -not- how it works. The English means "I want to
possess and have on my person an apple.". So if you're saying that {mi
djica lo plise} means that, then what does {mi djica lo nu bajra}
mean? I want to possess and have on my person running? It has to mean
the same thing every time. That's what the issue is exactly. If
anything the implication is existence. "I desire the existence of X."
is a more accurate English translation of the correct usage.
Addressing {nitcu}, it works the same way. However, {pilno} doesn't
mention anything or have any implication of ownership, possession, or
carrying, as you pointed out. One can use one's sense of direction
just the same as one can use a hammer. It doesn't imply any kind of
carrying, possession, or method of use, just that it is used, and for
what purpose, but not how.

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