Re: [lojban] Idea: Levels

[Leo Molas <leos.molas@gmail.com>]

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:43 AM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On grammatical grasp. there are two old criteria.  1.  Grasp of simple sentence
> structure -  can they get all the pieces in place in a simple sentence. 2. how
> many transformations from underlying (surface) structures (or to) does the most
> complex sentence contain.  This latter is quantifiable and so proably is the
> first.   One might want to add some qualitative matters, since some
> transformations are inherently more opaque than others and the notion of "simple
> sentence" is probably open to a range of interpretations.
>
>

I have to say I'm a little confused by this two criteria (sorry
o'anai). Could you explain those again?

However, from what I understand from the comment " the notion of
"simple sentence" is probably open to a range of interpretations", I
might add that I know this idea has flaws, since with simple
constructors you can write a difficult sentence. However, I won't
expect that a classification gotten from a well specified level will
be perfect. It would be a place to start. In other words, I expect
that being part of a level is a necessary condition for a student of
that level to understand it, but not sufficient.

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Jameson Orndorff <jtorndorff@gmail.com> wrote:
> My new learning system will involve a level structure similar to what
> you've said. It's in the works.

One of my inspirations were the wave lessons (from which I've had and
I am studying from). Perhaps we could merge the ideas.

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder
- LLG <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
> Leo Molas wrote:
<snip>
>
> This actually exists, in a sense, but I did the work more than 20 years ago
> before there was much actual usage, and no doubt people have different
> opinions on how to divide things.
>
> The gismu list was sortable by textbook lesson number.  This is the old
> draft textbook
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Gismu+by+lesson
>
> The lesson numbers are found in fixed columns (I think 158-159) in the
> baselines list:
> http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/gismu.txt
>
> The grammar was divided into 6 levels of difficulty, which are embedded in
> Nora's random sentence generator.  (The link on the "random sentence
> generator" page seems to be broken, but I am sure it is on lojban.org
> somewhere.  I revised the data for the 1994 grammar a few years ago, and had
> the program recompiled under Visual Basic - I don't know if that revision
> made it to the lojban.org website, but I have it.)
>
> The levels, based on the outline for that original 1989 draft textbook,
> cover through chapters 3, 6, 10, 13, all lessons, and a nasty level that has
> enhanced chances of unlikely grammar structures.  Only 6 of the draft
> textbook lessons were ever written, and John Cowan reorganized those into 22
> lessons around 1992.
>
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Old+Draft+Textbook
>
> in more or less the same order, but the designed chapter numbers are no
> longer meaningful for that text. Somewhere, I have the original outline that
> lays out what I planned to include in each chapter.
>
> lojbab
>

It would be great to take a look of that outline, and/or the contents
for each level. However, I'm not asking you to search it, since I know
how hard is to found a 15 year old paper :D.

I started this thread to know the opinion of lojbanistan about the
idea, knowing it's already been discused, but not in the exact way I
described (I mean, with very detailed grammar posibilities for each
level). If you think it would be useful, it would be a good project
for me and whoever is interested.

Actually, in some way, if Nora created a sentence generator, the old
lojbab's levels are what I thought about, and may serve for a text
classificator. It would be a good place to start. But again, I'd like
to know if you would find this useful first.

mu'o mi'e leos



-- 
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