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Re: [lojban] la .alynpost. ma zvati (Regarding lodockikumazvati)
{pe}, in newer versions of the USC, has been replaced with
constructs like {lo do rokci}. I use {me} when I need to express
that as a selbri. I find that much clearer than the previous
version.
It isn't against the spirit of the game to introduce {le} if you
can't describe {lo}, but it is against the spirit of the game to
introduce them both if you don't have different phrases to use
or some other in-language disambiguation. Even if you have to
describe that difference in the host language.
I've struggled with this for ti, ta, tu, because which one you
use is speaker dependent. I've punted on it, but it is essentially
like mi/do in requiring the speaker to modify a copycat phrase
to get it right.
-Alan
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:08:17AM -0500, Alex Rozenshteyn wrote:
> [1]http://whereareyourkeys.org/ is the only other resource I've found
> about the game. If you were referring to this website, then I don't know
> what else you can do short of finding (in person) someone knows the game;
> if you were referring to alynpost's website, then this might be the
> resource you were looking for.
>
> AFAI can see, it would be against the spirit of the game (and limiting to
> its effectiveness) to introduce le until one can explain, in lojban the
> functional difference between le and lo.
>
> {.i ta pe do xu rokci} would probably be better expressed as using
> {ponse}, since the possession is what is in question. Perhaps {do ponse xu
> ta poi rokci}, changing the word order from the English to avoid FA and
> SE.
>
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Lindar <[2]lindarthebard@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> I would love to learn how to be the person running this game, but the
> website gives me very few clues. Could anybody help me figure this thing
> out?
> Secondly:
> The Lojban in the Universal Speed Curriculum is wrong. It's just plain
> terrible, in fact.
> I don't know exactly where to put a proper translation, so I'll post it
> here.
> i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta mo li�u ca lo xance cusku. be zoi xan.
> *weird hand symbols here* .xan.
> *correction magic*
> .i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta mo li'u ca lo nu xance cusku zoi xan.
> *weird symbols* .xan.
> Correct all instances of this type of sentence to be like this.
> Next is:
> i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i lo ta rokci pe do xu li�u ca lo xance cusku be
> zoi xan. *weird symbols* .xan
> Unfortunately, this is not a complete utterance: "A rock?". {lo ta
> rokci} actually unfolds to {lo rokci pe ta}, which adds further
> confusion when you add another {pe}. It doesn't actually make sense in
> Lojban.
> Should be:
> .i lo tadni ku cusku lu .i ta pe do xu rokci li'u ca lo nu xance cusku
> zoi xan. *weird symbols* .xan.
> This is asserting that it is, indeed, a rock. However, this whole
> meaning is rather strange, because one could also assert that, despite
> the fact that it is somebody else's rock, it is also the speaker's rock
> in a Lojbanic sense. It's on the table near the speaker, so I would say
> that, yes, it is. I understand that the goal is to keep the game
> semantically simple, but those words don't mean what you want them to
> mean, so you have to pick a different meaning or a different word. I
> think this would be a lovely time to introduce le/ku.
> Start with {.i mi ponse lo rokci ku .i xu do ponse lo rokci ku .i do na
> ponse lo rokci ku .i mi ponse lo rokci ku .i do ponse lo grana ku .i xu
> do ponse lo grana ku} etc.
> {.i mi je'a ponse lo rokci ku .i je do je'a ponse lo grana ku} finally
> at the end, etc.
> Please get back to me about translations. If you can directly e-mail me
> chunks of 10 basic phrases to translate, I will translate 10 chunks
> every two or three days for you. This sort of basic conversation is very
> easy for me to translate, but is also very important to get correct the
> first time, so I would be very glad to help you fully translate the
> curriculum. So, send me some stuff to translate, I'll e-mail you back as
> soon as I can, then you send me more once you get those ten.
>
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> --
> Alex R
>
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> References
>
> Visible links
> 1. http://whereareyourkeys.org/
> 2. mailto:lindarthebard@yahoo.com
> 3. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> 4. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> 5. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en
--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi
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