[lojban] Masses

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>]

coi rodo

From the talk <[lojban] "lo no">:
2011/5/14 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> I agree with the gist of tijlan's post, but I'd like to add some observations.
>
> On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 7:56 AM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> lo ci gerku = da poi gerku je cimei
>> lo no gerku = da poi gerku je nomei
>
> lo ci gerku = zo'e noi gerku gi'e cimei
> lo no gerku = zo'e noi gerku gi'e nomei
>

These interpretations look wrong to me. The individuals are {gerku},
while only the mass composed of them is a {cimei}. This distinction
is essential, so that, e.g., the referents of
{da poi jenmi je so'imei},
{zo'e noi jenmi gi'e so'imei}, and
{lo jenmi je so'imei}
can all be unambiguously understood to be an army (or armies) of
many soldiers, instead of a lot of armies, regardless of semantic
nuances between these expressions.

Were we to accept that a mass of broda can always be described as
broda in any of these ways, then we would have to accept that a
mass of two armies, each one composed of a thousand men is a
{jenmi gi'e solci gi'e remei gi'e ki'omei}. In particular, we must accept
{remei je ki'omei} to be no contradiction.

More importantly: How would I clarify that my broda is just a broda,
and not any conceivable mass (of masses of masses... ) of broda?
Perhaps by saying something like {broda gi'e gunma noda poi broda}?

In summary, systematically assigning to a mass the properties of its
individuals, while not logically problematic, is highly confusing, and
requires heavy work when a common disambiguation is called for.

I would say that the meaning of {lo PA broda cu brode} is closer to either
{PA da broda .i da poi broda cu brode} (CLL), or
{PA lo broda cu brode} (xorlo only), or
{zo'e noi gunma PA da poi broda cu brode} (xorlo only).

What do you think?

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.