Re: [lojban] Re: paradox

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 3:19 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

A place where Lojban deviated from logic, in that the "x" that is represented by
'ce'u' is a *bound* variable but without an explicit binder (historically
lambda), so, since there is only one word available for this role, it is hard to
tell whether the second 'ce'u' is another occurrence of the first (which is what
is intended) or a new variable with a new (implicit) binder. Subscripting the
'ce'u's would solve this problem, but no one seems to do it (and I am not even
sure 'ce'u' can take a subscript). I think the second interpretation is the
default one, but I couldn't find any discussion of how then to deal with the
first case.

----- Original Message ----
From: ianek <janek37@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, September 2, 2011 1:47:56 PM
Subject: [lojban] Re: paradox

http://dag.github.com/cll/11/4/

Quote:
It is also possible to have more than one “ce'u” in a “ka”
abstraction, which transforms it from a property abstraction into a
relationship abstraction. Relationship abstractions “package up” a
complex relationship for future use; such an abstraction can be
translated back into a selbri by placing it in the x2 place of the
selbri “bridi”, whose place structure is:

“bridi”: x1 is a predicate relationship with relation
x2 (abstraction) among arguments (sequence/set) x3
End quote.

So, {lo ka ce'u ce'u na ckaji} is not right. It should be something
like {lo ka ce'u lo nei na ckaji} unless I'm wrong (not sure whether
{nei} refers to the inner bridi). {vo'a} can't be used here, as it
refers to the x1 of the outer bridi, ie. the full abstraction. {ri}
can't be used also, as it doesn't refer to KOhA.

This opens a subject which bugged me for a long time: how are
reflexive relationships handled in Lojban? I've seen lujvo with
{sevzi} to handle them, but this doesn't seem right in general, as the
definition of {sevzi} suggests a concious being (unless I'm wrong), so
it couldn't be used to make eg. {sezra'a} mean "x1 is self-
referential".

mu'o mi'e ianek

On Sep 2, 4:51 pm, Martin Bays <mb...@sdf.org> wrote:
> Cute Russel for properties, which translates nicely to lojban:
>
> xu lo ka ce'u ce'u na ckaji ku vo'a ckaji
>
> application_pgp-signature_part
> < 1KViewDownload

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