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Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions?



On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:40 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Good!  Then you realize the importance of having the meaning of all expressions of Lojban as clearly laid out in formal terms as possible, so that computers (as of now at least, can understand).  So you must recognize that the problems with {zo'e} are important, since that word preserves the place structure intact, rather than flittering away into mush when it is not used completely.

Seeing as I intentionally haven't paid attention, at all, to that thread, I don't even know what "problems" {zo'e} has. So, I'm going to say, no, I don't re3cognixe that they are important. What I do recognize is that /I/, personally, don't care. I'm not a linguist. To me {zo'e} means, basically, "context-determined". That is, whatever it is within the context of the jufra, or possibly the discussion, that would sensibly fit in the place {zo'e} is being used (explicitly or implicitly), is what what {zo'e} means in that place. I would not be surprised if a computer of today could not understand that, but I do not think it is because {zo'e} is ill-defined, I think it is because computers don't understand context, or even the concept thereof.
 
I agree about Klingon, but I think tp is cute (subjective, as you say).  And, of course, I like your definition of {lo broda}.

It's not /my/ definition. It's /the/ definition.
 

From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2011 4:30:17 PM

Subject: Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions?

My attraction to Lojban is the unambiguous-ness of it's pronunciation, that it is possible to be as specific or as clear as you want, and the place structure system it has due to being based on predicate logic. Oh yes, and that stated goal of being able to talk to computers and have them /actually understand you/.

I don't take up Klingon because I'm not a Trekkie. While I do like the Star Trek franchise, I'm not enough of a fan to devote time to learn a language spoken by a fictitious race of war-mongers. /IF/ I were going to learn the language of a star Trek species, I'd learn Vulcan. The only Klingon I ever liked was Torres on Voyager, and she was milato.

I don't take up toki pona because it's ugly. I realize that's a subjective argument, but meh. I'm allowed.

{lo broda} means "one or more things which actually fit into the x1 slot of the predicate {broda}".

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, in keeping with the saying, what is the attraction of Lojban to you?  Why not take up Klingon, which has a definite culture and definitive answers to your haja questions (haja form the pluperfect subjunctive?, a question liable to get more muddy than xorlo in Lojban)?  Or toki pona, that takes about a day to learn enough to carry on conversations on a range of things and contribute to the list? And, while most of your contributions have been about haja questions or general learning aids (the best app for your smartphone, say), you have taken part in earlier rounds of the eternal xorlo issue so, are not completely uninterested nor ignorant.  So, what do you think {lo broda} means?



From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, September 20, 2011 2:58:45 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Should we have another mailing list for abstruse discussions?

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 8:04 AM, John E. Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Well, as the old saying (I've been saying it for thirty some years) goes, "If you want to have a logical language, you have to put up with a little logic".  In the present case, since it concerns {zo'e}, the most common unwritten word in Lojban, and thus {lo}, the most common written word (possibly excluding {I} and { cu}), it would seem to be worthy of general attention.  The demands of the discussion are not great (yes, Montague's course was graduate level, but Partee's was just Senior level and we don't need the whole pile here).  So gird up and learn a little about possible worlds and mappings and intensionality.  Jboske would be a nice site, but,as noted, no one goes there and there is no handy connection to it from the general site.

Sent from my iPad

I don't even know what the TITLE means. Oh, I know I could probably look it up and find out, sure. But, here's the thing- I don't care. I am not a linguist or logician. I have no interest whatsoever IN understanding. Figuring out how the language works isn't my job. That job belongs to the linguists and logicians. They figure out how a word works, then they tell us, in layman's terms, once they've figured it out. The whole zo'e thing going on is exactly that- something they are figuring out.

I've got enough stuff on my "to learn" plate being in college without putting the learning of an entirely new discipline on there too- especially one that I'm not interested in anyway. If I don't /need/ to learn it, and I don't /want/ to learn it, I'm not going to learn it. Simple as that. Get back to me when you figure out what zo'e means.

 

On Sep 20, 2011, at 5:40, rdentato@gmail.com wrote:

On , Arnt Richard Johansen <arj@nvg.org> wrote:
> There is jboske@yahoogroups.com, but that one hasn't been posted to since 2007.

Great! Let's ask those that want to conduct such in-depth discussions to move there!

remod

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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