[lojban] Re: elliptical sentences

[John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>]

Whew!  Things are about where I remembered them as being.  The argument they embody has to do with the intersection of the 'exist' predicate, the range of quantifiers, and intensional contexts.  xorxes has a simple solution which leads to greater complexity in the semantics of the language; I have a slightly more complex solution which makes the semantics like that of most natural languages.  They agree however that what is referred to by 'lo broda' is a broda, whether it exists or not (well, actually, some things xorxes has said look like the expression always refers to brodahood or some such thing, but I take it that these remarks are not to be taken at face value).


----- Original Message ----
From: Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:12:31 PM
Subject: [lojban] Re: elliptical sentences

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Luke Bergen<lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok, so what do you mean by "lo is veridical"?

Basically, that "lo broda" can only refer to things that truly are broda.

> I didn't know what the word
> meant and went to http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Averidical
> which says stuff about "coinciding with reality" which as you said, "[lo]
> says nothing about describing or existing".  So what do you mean when you
> say "lo is and always has been veridical"?

A veridical description is a truthful description, yes. It doesn't
mean that what you describe has to exist, only that it has to be what
you are describing it as. If you say "lo pavyseljirna" then you are
talking about unicorns, not about apples or about the sea. You are not
claiming that unicorns exist, you are just saying something about
unicorns. For example you may say that unicorns are mythical
creatures: "lo pavyseljirna cu ranmi danlu". That's fine and does not
claim that unicorns exist. It can't mean that warewolves are mythical
creatures, because "lo" is veridical, so "lo pavyseljirna" refers to
unicorns not to warewolves.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


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