Re: [lojban] Lions and levels and the like

[Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>]

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 9:22 PM, maikxlx <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/11/17 Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
>> "ka'e" is "fi'o se cumki". The connection with "kakne" is just mnemonic.
>
> Is this a newish development?  {ka'e} is also a rafsi of {kakne},
> often a strong sign of relatedness.

Almost all CV(')V cmavo have the same form of a rafsi of something. My
guess is the ones that are related to that something are in  the
minority. "ka'e" was obviously taken from "kakne", yes, but the
connection is kind of malglico. Similarly "pe'i" comes from "pensi",
"ti'e" from "tirna", and thare are other mnemonics that go through
malglico glosses.

> Meanwhile, vlasisku, BPFK section
> CAhA, cmavo.txt and the CLL say nothing about {cumki} wrt {ka'e}.

In jbovlaste "ka'e" is defined as "fi'o se cumki". But since I wrote
that definition I guess I can't count that as evidence. :)

> Also, while {cumki} does express possibility, {ka'e}, from the given
> definitions, seems to be more about ability than possibility.

But whose ability? Each of the arguments of the relation modified by
"ka'e"? The x1? The agent (assuming there is one)?

> In
> order to say things like "it possibly brodas" and "it necessarily
> brodas" I have to believe that these concepts should have their own
> words, without mixing ability into it.

I agree that the word "ability" should not appear in the definition of
CAhAs, since events don't really have abilities.

> These primitive logical
> operators strike me as vastly worth assigning two disyllables from
> cmavo space, especially in light of some of the other things
> available. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I have said before that it is extremely weird that a logical
language doesn't have a word for the "necessarily" operator.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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