Re: [lojban] baby words, sort of: catlu vs. zgana

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

This is really interesting stuff!  Can you make sure it appears on
some appropriate BPFK page?

I completely agree with you about zgana, and I'm inclined to agree
with you about ganse; make sure they get notes in the gismu setion
please.  How do you fix ganse when you ignore the gi'uste?

-Robin

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 07:17:55PM -0300, Jorge Llambías wrote:
> In English we have:
> 
> look - see
> listen - hear
> touch - feel
> sniff - smell
> taste - taste
> 
> where the second word in each pair describes an experience while the
> first one describes an action one takes in order to have that
> experience. ("taste" can work both ways, action "I tasted the soup to
> see whether it needed more salt", or experience "I tasted something
> funny in the soup". "smell" and "feel" too can work both ways.)
> 
> Lojban doesn't have gismu for most of those:
> 
> catlu - viska
> ----- - tirna
> pencu - -----
> ----- - sumne
> ----- - -----
> 
> My understanding is that "zgana" and "ganse" were meant to be the
> general words for each column, so we could have:
> 
> catlu - viska
> kerzga - tirna
> pencu - pilga'e
> zbizga - sumne
> tacyzga - tacyga'e
> 
> Or in fully regular form:
> 
> kalzga - kalga'e
> kerzga - kerga'e
> pilzga - pilga'e
> zbizga - zbiga'e
> tacyzga - tacyga'e
> 
> There are however two problems with all of this.
> 
> One problem is that all the words used to define "zgana" in English in
> the gi'uste are used almost exclusively with sight, and as Pierre
> pointed out they seem to mean something more like a prolonged
> intentional viska than just directing some sense in order to perceive.
> I believe this is just a case of bad gloss words, since English has no
> convenient word for the intended concept. It is clear that despite the
> gloss words, "zgana" is not restricted to sight, because it has a
> place for the means of sensing.
> 
> The other problem is the property in x2 of ganse. I think gismu that
> have a property argument and no argument for the thing with the
> property are just wrong. Fortunately there are not many of them. My
> policy is to just ignore the gi'uste about this.
> 
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.
> 
> 

-- 
http://singinst.org/ :  Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
is "na nei".   My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.