Re: [lojban] ka'e/kakne & mapti/sarxe

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis <felipeg.assis@gmail.com>]

On 20 February 2012 18:13, Jorge Llambías <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It definitely falls under the category of "ok, I see what you're trying to
>> get at".  I'd hear "mi kakne lo nu do citka" similar to a kid saying "I want
>> to candy".  Cutely wrong, but I get what they're trying for.  I'd probably
>> correct them (though not by raging that "no, that doesn't make sense, I
>> don't understand what you're even trying to say").
>
> But wouldn't the obvious interpretation of that be "I can be eaten by you"?
>
> mi kakne lo nu [mi] citka
> mi kakne lo nu do citka [mi]
> mi kakne lo nu do citka lo plise [gau mi]
>
> "kakne" requires its x1 to be a part of the event in x2, usually an
> agent in x2, but there is no rule that the x1 has to be explicitly
> repeated in x2, in fact it is common to leave it out. So I'm not sure
> there's anything that needs correcting.
>

By the way, this inherent participation of kakne1 in kakne2 is something
I always felt that should be reflected by the grammar of the sentence
(as it is in English). Something like
  {mi kakne lo nu do citka [ce'u]}.

I agree that this is odd and far-fetched. But it also reminds me of
example 11-4.4 in CLL:
  {le ka do xunre cu cnino mi},
which I guess we all reject nowadays.

More concretely, I'd really like to have a concise way of saying
  "I can love you but you can't (love yourself)"

A traditional translation I believe to work is
  {mi .enai do kakne lo nu lo no'a cu prami do}
(does it?), but it involves too much magic anyway.

What do you think?

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

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