I don't know IUPAC well enough to translate it to Lojban. Do you know it well
enough that together we could?
On Wednesday, March 07, 2012 17:43:07 RexScientiarum wrote:--
> Yeah, I know on the taxonomy. What I meant was that it is (sort of)
> regulated by by several groups like ICN (formerly ICBN) and ICZN, among
> others. But w/e, that is probably irrelevant (I'll explain why I even
> brought it up later). Still, my main question is how do we talk about these
> sorts of things in lojban? Is there a cmavo that says: "Binomial follows'?
> or 'IUPAC preffered name follows'? Or do we just use {la}, {la'o}, and
> {zoi} or w/e?To stick a taxonomic name, we use "la'o"; that is in fact what it was first
used for (it derives from "latmo"). As to IUPAC, I don't know yet.> I HAD assumed that taxonomy, at least, would be treated in one of those two
> ways (because, as you said, it is always treated as a foreign language,
> hence why it is italicized in print or *supposed *to be underlined when
> handwritten) but it looks as if other community members have already begun
> to lojbanize taxonomic names so I thought MAYBE there is some feeling that
> there is a need to lojbanize biological classification for whatever reason
> (which is why I ask, and I thought maybe there was some feeling that the
> current Linnaean method based primarily on Latin and some Greek and written
> in the Roman alphabet wasn't a universal, culturally/scientifically
> unbiased method. Idk, just trying to understand/rationalize why someone
> thought there had to be a lojban name for eubacteria {fadjurme} and the
> like).If you say "lo strepsiptera" or "lo frangula", you're using a common name that
happens to be the same (except for capitalization) as the scientific name for
the same thing, just as if you say "an octopus" or "la salvia". There are
ornithologists who have compiled lists of common names for every bird they can
think of, so if someone talks about an American Robin or a Black Rail, we know
they mean the same as a particular scientific name. I don't think we need to do
that in Lojban, or could easily; Lojban doesn't have a lot of preexisting
names for birds, fish, or mammals.> As far as IUPAC goes, all I meant was that I don't know how IUPAC works
> exactly in other languages, other than the fact that it is different from
> IUPAC nomenclature in English. I don't need a description of how to IUPAC
> naming works, at least in English, I already know how that works. Maybe I
> was a bit misleading when I said I didn't have an esoteric understanding of
> because I DO understand it, I just wouldn't claim to be an expert qualified
> to write the lojban IUPAC rules and that hopefully some well
> respected career chemist happened to speak lojban and WOULD be qualified to
> write the lojban IUPAC rules. I was trying to be humble; of course now I
> am probably needlessly getting defensive over my 'geek' ego but so be it.
> I know you weren't trying to be derogatory or anything so please don't
> take anything I say in a bad way. As far as speaking lojban, however, I AM
> in fact a complete 'noob'. (It is a good point you made though about how
> unlike Indo-European languages IUPAC nomenclature is)I don't know IUPAC well enough to translate it to Lojban. Do you know it well
enough that together we could?> As you said there isn't much room left in lojban for all the affixes (which
> I had suspected might be the case) used in IUPAC nomenclature. As
> mentioned earlier, I am a complete lojban 'noob' so this might be a stupid
> question but is there some way that a cmavo or something could be used to
> denote "Hey we're talking about a chemical nomenclature here!" and thus
> allow the 'grammar' rules within the limiters to be tweaked to be more
> IUPAC friendly while still keeping the nomenclature 'lojbanic' in the sense
> that it is unique to lojban, uses lojban valsi and characters (in w/e
> orthography), and phonology? Would not a similar system be viable for, say,
> a unique lojban taxonomy as well? (Since it seems, as mentioned earlier,
> that some lojban speakers [not me necessarily] appear to think biological
> taxonomy needs to be lojbanized as well.)I've considered using "tau" for "ide" (e.g. "tabno relkijytau"), as "tanru"
means a binary compound phrase. It should be obvious from the presence of
words for chemical elements, rather than words for words, what kind of binary
compound is meant.By the way, what does "w/e" mean?
Pierre
--
li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci