Re: [lojban] Historian: what's up with directional words?

[Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>]

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 06:46:28PM -0400, Bob LeChevalier, President
and Founder - LLG wrote:
> Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> >The direction words (pritu, zunle, trixe, etc) are phrased very
> >strangely:
> >
> >zunle = x1 is to the left/left-hand side of x2 which
> >faces/in-frame-of-reference x3.
> >
> >What does "which faces" mean?  It seems to imply that x2 must
> >have a natural facing/front, which is bad.  Why do we even care
> >about facing in this contexnt?
> 
> Pretend that you are multilaterally symmetrical, and that you have
> no front.  Identify what is to your left.  Now rotate yourself 180
> degrees, and what is "to your left" is what used to be "to your
> right".  Thus your orientation/facing/frame of reference, is
> essential to defining what "to your left" means.

Obviously, but why is that a feature of the *x2*, instead of the
*x3* which is the frame of reference?

In other words, please describe this picture using {pritu}, and fill
all places (feel free to fill some places inspecifically):

http://ynevar.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/apple-and-orange.jpg

> >{mlana} additionally bothers me because you can't say *which*
> >side something is on with {mlana}, and additionally discussing
> >facing seems even more bizarre, but at least it gets its own
> >place:
> >
> >x1 is to the side of/lateral to x2 and facing x3 from point of
> >view/in-frame-of-reference x4
> >
> >which is an improvement.
> >
> >Just wondering what the plan was here.
> 
> The definition of mlana was intended to cover the case where all
> that is important is that it is to the side rather than directly
> in front of you (or behind you), without worrying about left and
> right, and perhaps allowing for the possibility of being "to the
> side" in the 3rd dimension as well (ie above/below) in a
> gravityless situation where up and down are ambiguous.
> 
> If you have no definable orientation at all (i.e no "front") then
> you cannot have a "side" - or rather everything is to your "side",
> and distance is all that matters (lamji, jibni, darno).

None of which tells me why the x3 is there; it seems utterly
superfluous.

-Robin

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