LoCCan3 has been for more than 20 years (and before that there was Loglan 2.0) a repository for noting flaws perceived in Lojban (and before that Loglan) and for suggested solutions and other improvements (read scare quotes where you will). The active content has varied over the years: no one is hot for adding or dropping phonemes at the moment, for example. But a few items have endured, usually connected with perceived problems.0. A complete redo of the vocabulary (obviously not back-compatible). The present vocab clusters in some phonetic spaces and leaves others bare, increasing the likelihood of confusion in noisy environments (if Lojban is ever used in one) and making it harder to find fragments for constructing compounds and related cmavo. The only reason for the present word list is the claimed ease of learning, a claim that has never been tested on even English speakers, let alone Chinese or other languages or relevant multilinguals. The evidence presented is either intuitive or anecdotal and these are countered by anecdotal difficulties ("false friends" they used to be called). The revamp includes a revision of the definitions, which could be done separately (with a bit more compatibility) to make the definitions simpler (generally fewer places, with many places that occur in many definitions but are rarely used spun off to prepositions) and more uniform (all words of the same sort (you are keeping your supply of scare quotes running, I hope) would have the same pattern of places). A general shake down of the cmavo system is also part of this, sharpening definitions, clarifying roles, getting rid of detritus, relieving confusion pressure, etc. For the most part, this is not Lojban at all but the beginnings of a real third generation from Loglan. So not going to happen until the next charismatic nut-case comes along.
1. Anaphora. The logical ideal is a way to refer back to any previously mentioned thing unambiguously and transparently from anywhere in the later discourse. Practically impossible with pronouns, unless every noun is assigned a carrier at birth (and there are problems even with that). Loglan can come remarkably close, but the system barely works with written text and is just not practical in spoken language beyond very short intervals. The usable Lojban techniques, official and not, work as well as the unofficial for the most part but are also of limited scope. The rule "Repetition is also anaphora" seems the best way to go, though even it has to be used carefully in some Cataphora (referring to something about to be mentioned) is always short scope and can be eased by mentioning it now already.
2. Words for individuals and sets and masses arose out of the muddle, inherited from Loglan and not much tidied up in CLL, about what exactly 'lo broda' referred to. The old underlying logic had only individuals, some of which were sets that contained other individuals (or not). The problem then was to deal with groups that did not behave like sets in set theory but could still go in for individual variables. For some reason, the notion that ordinary sets could take properties in different ways from the usual ways for sets did not occur to anyone, so this remained a problem. Until xorxes found a book about plural reference/instantiation. According to this, a singular noun could refer to several things at once and a singular variable could be simultaneously instantiated to several things at once. Conceptually differently, but formally the same, sets could be Lesniewskian rather than Cantorian, so that getting to the members of a set is much easier (as is talking about what happens). Once 'lo broda' was taken to refer to an L-set of brodas, much of the rest fell into place. Because the theory is also of the part-whole relation, it is sometimes necessary to distinguish the relevant individuals (ones with no relevant parts) and also to be able to talk about wholes (L-sets) in the abstract way that one normally talks about C-sets. This means that some of the gadri need redefinition (or clarification of the given definitions). There are also some residual problems with 'lo' left over from Loglan that need sorting out. None of this has much affect on current or past text.
3, The original four logical connectives, and their derivatives (often more interesting) and the handful of non-logical ones have multiplied sixfold or more. As the language is built, these are needed to preserve the underlying logical structure, to provide a way to get back to the underlying simple sentences connected sententially from the given complex sentence involving connected terms or predicates or bridi tails or whatever. The quest here has been to find a simpler way of marking these transformations without needing a whole new vocabulary at each stage. The fact that the reconstruction process involved is not proven to be correct also needs some looking at. This may be a minor matter of reinterpreting given forms or it may take a thorough reworking of the connective parts of the grammar.
4. RHE. Though the grammatical right-hand end problems are mainly solved (with the constant danger of misuse leading to your saying something quite different from what you meant), the logical ones are less well dealt with (the "get back to the formula" problem seen in 3). So far, informal conventions seem to be in place and there are some cmavo for doing some of these jobs. But they are rarely used and not well described. They do not form clear groups in the cmavo lists, though grouping them might not be a problem (and the fact that they are very different might be an advantage).
That is what LoCCan3 actively contains at the moment.
From: gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2012 4:41 AM
Subject: [lojban] Re: Is there any demand for LoCCan3?
Let's discuss it now ))).After reading the article I want new language even less.The monkey took the banana and ate it.Pam went home because she felt sick.The dog ate the bird and it died. (!!!!!!!!!!!)In each case I can use {ta} and the context will decide who felt sick (the house or Pam) and who died (the dog or the bird).In other cases vo'a, ko'a can solve the problem.{sei} can be problematic for me but I hope CLL 1.1 will explain it.I can think of no other cases of anaphora.And it's still am mystery for me what can be done with2. There should be new cmavo for individuals, sets and masses3. new design of connectives--
On Monday, July 2, 2012 10:26:12 AM UTC+4, la .lindar. wrote:It's come up a few times.I think we're working on the rest.It's a theoretical next-step language, but I don't see it happening any time soon since we're changing up our game.
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