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Re: [lojban] Revising mu'ei and CAhA once again. Possible worlds.



On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 2:34:44 AM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Gleki Arxokuna
<gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> OK. If no other criticism I'll correct it and post it to lojban.org wiki.

Strictly speaking, "ka'e" only says that the bag contains black balls.
It doesn't say whether it also contains white balls or not, although
pragmatically one expects that it will, just as when someone says
"some" one pragmatically expects "but not all" to be true as well.

Similarly "ka'e na" would say that the bag contains white ball, saying
nothing about whether it contains black ones as well.

In order to say that it contains both black and white balls you may
need something like "su'opame'iro mu'ei", "in some but not all
worlds". "May or may not", as opposed to just "may".
Indeed. That's what I still might like.
If {ka'e} = {su'opame'iro mu'ei} then the scheme will get symmetry.
{su'opame'iro mu'ei} stretches across the scale not touching it's borders.
If {su'opame'iro mu'ei} = {ka'e} then {ka'ena} and {ka'e} are the same. They differ probably in accenting either the presense of white or black balls respectively. So "I could sleep"="I could be awake" as we don't specify what is more likely. We just state something in between {bi'aina} and {bi'ai}.

In a passage to the limit {su'opame'iro mu'ei} becomes equal to either {bi'ai} or {bi'aina}.

But if we assume that {ka'e}={su'o mu'ei} then in some cases it can be equal to {bi'ai} which is nonsense.
"I could swim" doesn't imply that "I necessarily swim". So stronlgy believe that {ka'e} must not include the case of {bi'ai} and {bi'ai na}.


I'd put "bi'ai" at the same level as "ka'e", it's not really about
materialization. That the ball picked is black is just a consequence
of all of them being black in that bag, so of course the one that
materializes will be as well, but "bi'ai" has nothing to do with the
materialization itself. Similarly it's not all that relevant to "na
ka'e" that the ball picked is white, it's just a consequence of all of
them being white in that bag.

> Are there still other voices for mu'ei?

"mu'ei" allows a more fine grained description of the contents of the
bags, "so'u mu'ei", "so'o mu'ei", "so'i mu'ei", "so'e mu'ei", "so'a
mu'ei", "du'e mu'ei", "rau mu'ei", "mo'a mu'ei".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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